Planting and pruning year old Cabernet Sauvignon vines

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Twkundrat

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Hello, I just picked up a couple Cabernet Sauvignon vines from my local nursery that I'm assuming are a year old. I'm planning on planting them this weekend. I was just wondering how many buds I should leave for double Guyot training. I'm thinking four (two that will be next year's fruiting canes and two that will be cut back for renewal spurs) but I thought I'd ask for some advice before any pruning. I'm basically just using these two plants to learn what I'm doing and to provide cuttings for more vines down the road. Thanks in advance for any helpIMG_20220308_192501884.jpg
 

VinesnBines

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I can't tell from the picture; are they grafted? Cabernet Franc can be grown un-grafted but are highly susceptible to root phylloxera. All vinifera grapes should be grafted to resistant root stock in most of the US.

When my grafted vines arrive, they are usually pruned to to two buds so you may want to cut them back to two buds.
 

Twkundrat

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Thanks for the info. The vines are un-grafted. I don't know anything about root phylloxera so I guess we'll see what happens. I'm in southern Arizona and the vines are Cabernet Sauvignon, not Cabernet Franc, if that makes any difference as far as it being an issue.
 

VinesnBines

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This is a pretty good article that gives the history. Nearly all vinifera vines in the world are grafted to American native grape rootstock. As I understand, the root phylloxera does not kill immediately but the vines slowly begin to fail and die. I don't know how fast it may hit the young vines. If you have any commercial vineyards nearby, you should ask what they grow and contact your state agricultural agency for assistance.
If you really want to expand from cuttings, learn to graft. I haven't ventured into grafting but maybe soon.
 

Twkundrat

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That is an interesting article. There are some commercial vineyards fairly close. I'll have to ask if their vines are grafted.
 

VinesnBines

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I would like to know. In Virginia we were advised to get both vinifera and hybrids grafted. I ditched the grafting advice for hybrids. Too much trouble to cover the grafts to keep from freeze damage.
 

Twkundrat

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I checked with one of the somewhat local vineyards and their vines are grafts. Down the road when I plant more I'll probably end up doing the same. For now, I got these two in the ground so we'll see how they do.IMG_20220319_181457029_HDR.jpg
 

VinesnBines

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Good luck. I understand there are a few commercial vineyards in Oregon that are able to grow ungrafted vinifera and growers in Chile are able to grow ungrafted. The rest of the world grafts vinifera to American rootstock.
 

ibglowin

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I would check with your local ag extension agent or other local vineyards for any known issues with phylloxera. Its always better to plant something grafted and disease resistant.
 
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Perhaps a book some others who grow vines (which I don't, but I am finding the book very interesting anyway) The Botanist and the Vintner - It's all about the Phylloxera and how American vines, mostly from Missouri, since that is where the Botanist came from saved wine growing.

 

tmcfadden932

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Thanks for the info. The vines are un-grafted. I don't know anything about root phylloxera so I guess we'll see what happens. I'm in southern Arizona and the vines are Cabernet Sauvignon, not Cabernet Franc, if that makes any difference as far as it being an issue.
If you have sandy soil, phylloxera doesn't care for that type of soil. If you are far enough from any commercial vineyard, you won't have any Phylloxera in your soil, it has to be brought in on root material. Vines started as cuttings won't have any, and if you are careful, may never have any of the bugs.
 

Twkundrat

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If you have sandy soil, phylloxera doesn't care for that type of soil. If you are far enough from any commercial vineyard, you won't have any Phylloxera in your soil, it has to be brought in on root material. Vines started as cuttings won't have any, and if you are careful, may never have any of the bugs.
Good to know. It is sandy soil and the closest commercial vineyard is about 15 miles away and it's a small one. Sounds like I could be ok assuming these two vines from the nursery didn't bring any hitchhikers with them.
 
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If you are willing to take a flyer, give the ungrafted vines a chance. Phylloxera is a big deal for a commercial vineyard with their monoculture situation. For two vines in a hobby vineyard miles away from another vineyard in an arid climate I think that you will not have problems. I have had commercial vine pruners in California tell me to simply plant own root canes for a small vineyard. I am currently doing a 10 vine experiment on own rooted Cab Sauv, but for a larger fill-in up the hill I have purchased grafted. Time will tell if the idea has merit.

Similarly Dutch Elm disease decimated the elm plantings in many towns across the USA. I remember seeing it happen during my childhood. It is spread by beetles which then spread a killer fungus. However, I have seen lone elms planted near abandoned farmhouses. These trees are currently of gigantic size. It always makes me smile and I check up on my old friends once a year.
 

Twkundrat

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If you are willing to take a flyer, give the ungrafted vines a chance. Phylloxera is a big deal for a commercial vineyard with their monoculture situation. For two vines in a hobby vineyard miles away from another vineyard in an arid climate I think that you will not have problems. I have had commercial vine pruners in California tell me to simply plant own root canes for a small vineyard. I am currently doing a 10 vine experiment on own rooted Cab Sauv, but for a larger fill-in up the hill I have purchased grafted. Time will tell if the idea has merit.

Similarly Dutch Elm disease decimated the elm plantings in many towns across the USA. I remember seeing it happen during my childhood. It is spread by beetles which then spread a killer fungus. However, I have seen lone elms planted near abandoned farmhouses. These trees are currently of gigantic size. It always makes me smile and I check up on my old friends once a year.

My thoughts exactly. If a couple of vines don't make it I won't be too devastated. I'll see how these do and maybe I'll plant a few more from cuttings from them down the road. I don't plan on ever having a big vineyard. In the future I'd like to have enough to make a five gallon batch at a time. I'll probably plant grafted vines at that point. I'll have to check with some of the local vineyards on what to expect as far as grape yield per vine in our harsh climate to figure out how many I'll need.

As far as the original question posted about how many buds to leave, I ended up leaving the top five buds. I figured two for next year's fruiting canes, two for renewal spurs, and a spare just in case. I plan to not allow any fruit for this year but should I thin out any of the growth or will it be beneficial to have all the leaves on the five shoots through this season?
 
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