Planting and first year care

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Fox Squirrel Vin

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The top vineyard consultants in Virginia suggest the 3/4 spacing. Since my vinifera plot has only 90 vines and is 24' by 54' on perfectly flat ground (40 foot elevation - zone 7), I decided to pack them in and yes, we will mow between the vines with a push mower.
Here is the plot Saturday morning, as I was putting in the second half.

View attachment 87228
In the main vineyard, 300 miles away to the Southwest mountains, (2100 feet elevation - zone 6 - average slope 17 degrees and max slope of 23 degrees) I went with 6 feet between the hybrids (4 feet for vinifera) and initially 9 feet between the rows. The PU will barely miss the trellis posts at 9 feet, so I agreed to 10 feet. Since we have now knocked over three posts in two years....
This picture was last summer:
View attachment 87229
The picture above is deceiving as to steepness. This snow picture from December 2020 gives you a better idea of the side sloop and steepness:
View attachment 87231

To ID your vines, I suggest you contact Lucie Morton; she is a top expert in Ampelography (ID grapes by the leaf). She is also a huge advocate of the 3/4 spacing for vinifera.
Thank you very much for the information. Your property looks lovely. I think I'm going to look onto that 3/4 spacing, land isn't getting any cheaper!
 

mljcpa

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Why the 10' spacing? I get the tractor issue, I have the same problem but why are you choosing to do the 3-4 planting with the vinifera? You'll be mowing with a push mower if the weeds get deep. I have a large order coming of the Andy Walker releases next spring and I'm starting to get the trellises in now and I'm doing a 5-6 spacing and I'm thinking that's tight! I've seen that 3-4 spacing before but always figured it was someone getting a bit too carried away with an unrealistic production expectation.

Where were you able to fined the new Andy Walker vines? I would like to order some for East Texas for next spring. Thanks!
 

ATX Red

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So it's been about 9 days since arrival of 3 varieties. They spent a week inside at 70'f, and then a couple days where they were outside half the day in the shade. They've been sitting in their moist woodchips and and a bit of native soil. One variety has bud breaks everywhere and is ready to go. The other two varieties have done absolutely nothing. Do you think I should wait for some green on the last two before planting?
 

VinesnBines

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In Virginia we try to get the dormant vines in the ground as soon as possible. My protocol is to keep the box in a cool place (usually basement or cellar0. I open the box and make sure the wrappings are damp and cool. on planting day I soak the vines in a bucket, in the cellar for 12 hours and never more than 24 hours. I like to get them in the ground within a week of the nursery shipping day. E.g. first shipment of vines left the nursery on April 11, they arrived on April 13 and I had half in on April 15 and the other half on April 16. The second shipment left the nursery on April 18, they arrived on April 20 and I had the first vines in the ground on April 25 and the rest in by the 26th. I plant the vines and within a couple hours water with at least one gallon of water, then pray for rain.

I did have some that had broken bud by the time they were planted - that year we were almost two weeks past shipping before we were finished. The vines did fine but I was not happy they were leafing out.
 

ATX Red

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Right, if I was early in the season that's what I would do. At this point I'm in the mid 80's though, so I don't know if there's additional protocol for a longer acclimation period, or waiting for bud break if going into the ground at those temps.
 

VinesnBines

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I would think it more important to get the dormant vines in the ground rather than wait for bud break regardless of the temps. Dormant vines are asleep and temps are not as important as they are for green vines/plants. Once a plant is leafing out, they are far more sensitive to temperatures. My advice ,after 40 plus years of planting and growing nearly everything in every season, is get the dormant plant in the ground ASAP. A green plant needs far more babying and care.
 

ATX Red

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Great, Tempranillo went in the ground yesterday. The other two will go tomorrow. Should I be worried that's it been 10 days since arrival and no green yet on the other two varieties?
Also, when would you target starting the spray program? When they outgrow the vine shelter, or before that? Thanks again.
 

VinesnBines

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I would not be worried that no green showing. I would take that as a good sign that they are still dormant. I really think they should be dormant until in the ground no matter how hot the air temps. I put Vidal in on April 26 and last week a couple were still just starting to bud. We had temps in the 80 and near 90. The vines break when they are ready. Late breaking varieties are later coming out of dormancy when first planted.

I would start the spray as soon as you get buds or leaves. Best for you to get in the habit even though you may not have much disease in the tubes. They will be out the tops of the tubes quite soon.
 

ATX Red

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Awesome, thanks again. So I'll start spraying this weekend, but it brings up more questions -

- I'm guessing I'm going to have new green buds every day for a while. Should I just check every vine every day or two and give them a spritz to anything that pops up?

- During this stage, if you spray something a couple days ago, but it has twice as much green growth now, how does that change your normal spray schedule?

- With the need to be able spray very small amounts, possibly every day or two, can you keep something like Mancozeb in a spray tank for an extended period of time? I think you would need to make a decent size batch to get everything measured correctly, but would only need a tiny bit each day.
 

VinesnBines

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Don’t be spraying every couple days. Get into a routine of every week to 10 days. Spray the vies ad whatever spray is left, dispose of it ad clea the sprayer. It this year but whe you get fruit, you wi have to stop using mancozeb 66 days before harvest. That was by the Ed of Jue you probably will have to switch to captan.
 

ATX Red

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OK, first spray time. I'm reading the Mancozeb label and am utterly lost on mixing a batch.

".88 to 2.35oz per 1000ft." is all the help I'm given. I'm guessing the amount of water you use to mix it is variable, as long as you're using that much product per 1000ft. However, if you're spraying a first-year vine, there's going to be a 100X difference in what you need to cover compared to a 4-year old with a huge canopy. How can one rate be applied to such different amounts of growth?

I'm spraying <40 vines that are just starting to get half way up their shelters, so I thought I would just start with a small spray bottle. I'm completely lost on how to mix this for the bottle though, for how much growth I have. Any guidance would be really appreciated! Thank you.
 

Cynewulf

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OK, first spray time. I'm reading the Mancozeb label and am utterly lost on mixing a batch.

".88 to 2.35oz per 1000ft." is all the help I'm given. I'm guessing the amount of water you use to mix it is variable, as long as you're using that much product per 1000ft. However, if you're spraying a first-year vine, there's going to be a 100X difference in what you need to cover compared to a 4-year old with a huge canopy. How can one rate be applied to such different amounts of growth?

I'm spraying <40 vines that are just starting to get half way up their shelters, so I thought I would just start with a small spray bottle. I'm completely lost on how to mix this for the bottle though, for how much growth I have. Any guidance would be really appreciated! Thank you.
I mix 1 teaspoon of mancozeb per gallon of water in case that helps. Just mist the vines with it; don’t worry about the application dose beyond that.
 

VinesnBines

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So I have 90 new vines and although my spacing is three feet between the vines, let’s assume that they are four feet apart so that is 360 feet or roughly 1/3 of 1000 feet. Since you have 40 vines you will need about 1/6 of an ounce mixed in about a quart of water. A dry ounce is two tablespoons so I would suggest one teaspoon in a quart of water. It may not take that much or it may take a little more.

Does that make sense? Someone else may venture to tell you that I’m wrong so let’s see if you get a better answer.

I was going with the lowest dose for caution.
 

ChuckD

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I have 30 new vines in the ground with buds just starting to break and I’m planting the final 25 tomorrow. Blue grow tubes will be installed this weekend. What type of spray regime do you recommend for new bare root vines?

I’m in NE WIsconsin and it’s a new vineyard. So no history of grapes on this ground.
 

VinesnBines

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I suggest starting a spray regime of Mancozeb and Neem oil or Mancozeb and myclobutanil. Start spraying when the leaves appear and spray every 10 to 14 days. If you are planting red French Am hybrids, do not use sulfur. Next year if you plan on any grapes, switch from Mancozeb to Captan in early to mid July. Mancozeb has a pre harvest interval of 66days; meaning you shouldn’t harvest until 66 days after the last Mancozeb spray.

When the Japanese beetles arrive, I add Sevin in the mix. I mix everything in the same spray tank.

It is good to train yourself to spray. Once you get in the habit it is easy to keep on schedule.
 

ChuckD

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I suggest starting a spray regime of Mancozeb and Neem oil or Mancozeb and myclobutanil. Start spraying when the leaves appear and spray every 10 to 14 days. If you are planting red French Am hybrids, do not use sulfur. Next year if you plan on any grapes, switch from Mancozeb to Captan in early to mid July. Mancozeb has a pre harvest interval of 66days; meaning you shouldn’t harvest until 66 days after the last Mancozeb spray.

When the Japanese beetles arrive, I add Sevin in the mix. I mix everything in the same spray tank.

It is good to train yourself to spray. Once you get in the habit it is easy to keep on schedule.
I have Brianna and Marquette along with two seedless Mars.

I have read no grapes until year three. And then very limited. Can I sneak a few In earlier?
 
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VinesnBines

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I have Brianna and Marquette along with two seedless Mars.

I have read no grapes until year three. And then very limited.
Some people try to get a crop in the second year. Late frosts made that choice for me in 2020 and 2021.

I think the vines are stronger if they have at least three years growth before attempting to bear a crop.
 

ChuckD

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So my Petite Pearl have been leafed out in the tubes for about 12 days and the Marquette are just starting. I have some mancozeb arriving this week. I’ll give them their first spray this weekend.

I already see some grape clusters forming on the PP! Do I leave them or should I take the grow tubes off so I can pinch them off? They are already getting bushy enough that it will not be easy putting the tubes back on!
 

VinesnBines

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So my Petite Pearl have been leafed out in the tubes for about 12 days and the Marquette are just starting. I have some mancozeb arriving this week. I’ll give them their first spray this weekend.

I already see some grape clusters forming on the PP! Do I leave them or should I take the grow tubes off so I can pinch them off? They are already getting bushy enough that it will not be easy putting the tubes back on!
Try to pinch them off as best you can. I know it is hard with grow tubes and you will miss some. Use your own judgement about the grow tubes. I had to pull them off some o my first year vines to spray and kill the Japanese beetles. Some vines are nearly destroyed and others untouched.

Anyway, I believe leaving clusters on young vines will weaken them. Don't sweat it but try to pinch them off.
 

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