Planting and first year care

[ATX Red]

Hi all. About to order my first potted vinifera, and super nervous. The scion types and root stocks are well suited for the area. While there's a ton of info out there, sometimes it's difficult to find how those processes might change in the first year. So, thank you all so much for the help in advance!

- Any recommendations for a potting mix to use with the potted soil when it goes in the ground? I'm thinking something with decent nitrogen content to help kickstart things.

- Spraying schedule: How does this change in newly planted vines that will already have some green? Do you start going right away?

- Drip irrrigation: Where emittors would normally be placed, they wouldn't hit the initial roots that haven't spread out from the pot yet. How do vineyards handle watering freshly planted vines?

 

[VinesnBines]

I usually plant dormant vines, however I have planted potted vines I raised from cuttings.
First, I would not add potting soil to the hole or add any nitrogen. You want the plant to build roots not lots of vigorous vine. The planting instructions with dormant vines say NOT to fertilize or mulch the first year.

As for irrigation, you should be sure the vines get an inch of water per week for the first year. I didn’t bother with irrigation last year for my first year vines and even with a dry year, they survived. I didn’t get a lot of top growth but they should be tough. As long as the drip nozzle is close to the hole or uphill of the vine, it will be fine. I’m sure there will be planting instructions so be sure to read those.

Where are you and where did you order the vines?

 

[VinesnBines]

Oh ;yes start spraying right away if you have green growth.

 

[ATX Red]

Thanks. I'm in central TX (consistent low 80's at the moment). i was going to order from Novafine, but I have a couple options written down. Inventory is starting to get scarce though, so need to hurry!

 

[VinesnBines]

Double A has a lot left. I got an email that they have more than anticipated. What do you want? They are great to work with and sell dormant vines. They sell certified ones. Nova vine is good too.

 

[VinesnBines]

Here is the list.

 

[ATX Red]

On their site, I can't tell what type their selling. Dormant roots? green potted? Something else?

 

[VinesnBines]

Dormant 1 year vines. They don’t sell green potted.

 

[ATX Red]

Oh, I think I’m too late in the season for dormant. I doubt they want to wake up to 85+F temps.

 

[Rice_Guy]

I would emphasize water for the roots to get established. Year one is root growth, you can forget fertilizer and potting mix, they will encourage confined roots.

 

[VinesnBines]

It is your choice about dormant vs potted. Yesterday I finished planting a small plot of 90 dormant vinifera. We are expecting temperatures in the 80s by mid week in zone 7. I'm not at all concerned about stress on the dormant vines. Wednesday, I'm getting delivery of 248 dormant vines to be planted in the larger vineyard in zone 6.

I assume since you have researched the appropriate rootstock and clones for your area, you have checked on planting recommendations. NovaVine is reputable so you should be fine.

How many vines are you planting; which varieties?

 

[ATX Red]

Actually, looking through Double A, it looks like they're completely out of 1103p rootstock, so it's not really an option anyway. It seems like it will be the best for my high PH, high lime soil.

Desired varieties are a cross between the wife's favorites and ones that grow well in TX, so Tempranillo, Mourvedre, Syrah, and a few others. I only have about 40 vine capacity at 6-foot spacing.

 

[VinesnBines]

Push the vinifera to 3 or 4 foot spacing. The trend is for 3 foot between vines and 4 foot between rows. If you can manage without much automation go for the close spacing. I went with the 3/4 spacing with the small, 90 vine vinifera.

I do 6 feet between vines and 10 foot rows with my hybrids. Since I have 1.5 going to 1.75 acres of hybrids, I'm doing the wider spacing. My husband insisted on 10 foot rows; good thing, we both have hit trellis posts with the tractors even at 10 feet.

Early in the year, Double A had Temranillo with 1103 rootstock. I passed on them because I wanted 101-14 or 3309. My second choice was Syrah but they didn't have that; I went with Barbera for the red vinifera.

 

[balatonwine]

While I understand the desire to get something in the ground in the spring and see nice green leaves in a few weeks, personally, I think the best time to plant vines is in the late autumn, as dormant bare rooted plants. Over winter really lets their roots settle into the soil, and the undisturbed winter soil moisture really gets them off to a good start. Hope this helps.

 

[toadie]

I agree fully with @balatonwine plus it has the added benefit of needing no or very little water. The problem is finding what you want in the fall or the quantity.

 

[Fox Squirrel Vin]

Here is the list.

Holy cow, someone must have backed out on a large Sayval Blanc order.

Oh, I think I’m too late in the season for dormant. I doubt they want to wake up to 85+F temps.

No problem planting dormant vines in 80 degree heat. I have to do it in Florida because by the time Double A ships, when it is warm enough for them to, it's already in the 80's here. I actually prefer this because there seems to be less transplanting shock. I've tried some green potted table grapes and noticed some transplant shock.

Unlike VinsenBines, I do give them some super triple phosphate and nothing else simply because it promotes good root growth.

 

[Fox Squirrel Vin]

Push the vinifera to 3 or 4 foot spacing. The trend is for 3 foot between vines and 4 foot between rows. If you can manage without much automation go for the close spacing. I went with the 3/4 spacing with the small, 90 vine vinifera.

I do 6 feet between vines and 10 foot rows with my hybrids. Since I have 1.5 going to 1.75 acres of hybrids, I'm doing the wider spacing. My husband insisted on 10 foot rows; good thing, we both have hit trellis posts with the tractors even at 10 feet.

Early in the year, Double A had Temranillo with 1103 rootstock. I passed on them because I wanted 101-14 or 3309. My second choice was Syrah but they didn't have that; I went with Barbera for the red vinifera.

What hybrids do you grow?

 

[VinesnBines]

What hybrids do you grow?

I have several; primarily Traminette, Vidal Blanc, Chelois, and Baco Noir. I have smaller plantings of Chambercian, Cayuga White, Marchel Foch, Chardonel and Marquette. I have a smattering of others. I have a couple vinifera vines in that same location.

I have so many different varieties because we only have two other commercial vineyards in a 50 to 75 mile radius. Most of these varieties are grown by the other vineyards. Also, in the mountains, just a few miles distance or feet of elevation will make a difference. I think I will settle on the four whites listed and three reds (Chelois, Chambercian and Bac Noir...though Baco better get it's act going. I've not had a lot of luck with Foch even though the closest vineyard to us is growing as a major variety.

The jury is out on Marquette; no crop yet and the early bud break may be a deal breaker. We are having later and later frosts (mid May killer frosts and freezes).

 

[Fox Squirrel Vin]

I have several; primarily Traminette, Vidal Blanc, Chelois, and Baco Noir. I have smaller plantings of Chambercian, Cayuga White, Marchel Foch, Chardonel and Marquette. I have a smattering of others. I have a couple vinifera vines in that same location.

I have so many different varieties because we only have two other commercial vineyards in a 50 to 75 mile radius. Most of these varieties are grown by the other vineyards. Also, in the mountains, just a few miles distance or feet of elevation will make a difference. I think I will settle on the four whites listed and three reds (Chelois, Chambercian and Bac Noir...though Baco better get it's act going. I've not had a lot of luck with Foch even though the closest vineyard to us is growing as a major variety.

The jury is out on Marquette; no crop yet and the early bud break may be a deal breaker. We are having later and later frosts (mid May killer frosts and freezes).

I purchased some grapes from some online nursery back when I was doing a feasibility study to see if I could do grapes in Florida, basically I wanted to see if I could effectively manage the fungal diseases in a high humidity environment and if 68 degrees average growing temp would work... I didn't want to grow Muskadines at all other than a couple for table eating. I cant remember who it was, but I ordered 6 Catawba but the leaves do not resemble that grape at all, and in fact, it produces a blue grape and the leaves look exactly like Chambercian, very beautiful plant and it's doing well with an average growing temp of 68 degrees. Obviously I'm not positive it is Chambercian but I haven't found anything else that matches that leaf so I'm 90% positive that's what it is.

There are a lot of really good hybrids out there that make really good wine. It's a shame that the marketing guru's in California have brainwashed the public into thinking if it is not a pure vinifera then it isn't worth drinking. I've made some great wine from Black Spanish that were my second trial variety, it makes a really interesting red off the skins because the flesh is pigmented. I have to stick with PD resistant varieties which is a shame but these Chambercian vines so far have been doing well. If they continue to do so, I may increase my plantings.

Why the 10' spacing? I get the tractor issue, I have the same problem but why are you choosing to do the 3-4 planting with the vinifera? You'll be mowing with a push mower if the weeds get deep. I have a large order coming of the Andy Walker releases next spring and I'm starting to get the trellises in now and I'm doing a 5-6 spacing and I'm thinking that's tight! I've seen that 3-4 spacing before but always figured it was someone getting a bit too carried away with an unrealistic production expectation.

 

[VinesnBines]

The top vineyard consultants in Virginia suggest the 3/4 spacing. Since my vinifera plot has only 90 vines and is 24' by 54' on perfectly flat ground (40 foot elevation - zone 7), I decided to pack them in and yes, we will mow between the vines with a push mower.
Here is the plot Saturday morning, as I was putting in the second half.


In the main vineyard, 300 miles away to the Southwest mountains, (2100 feet elevation - zone 6 - average slope 17 degrees and max slope of 23 degrees) I went with 6 feet between the hybrids (4 feet for vinifera) and initially 9 feet between the rows. The PU will barely miss the trellis posts at 9 feet, so I agreed to 10 feet. Since we have now knocked over three posts in two years....
This picture was last summer:

The picture above is deceiving as to steepness. This snow picture from December 2020 gives you a better idea of the side sloop and steepness:


To ID your vines, I suggest you contact Lucie Morton; she is a top expert in Ampelography (ID grapes by the leaf). She is also a huge advocate of the 3/4 spacing for vinifera.