PH very Difficult

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by abdullah, Apr 17, 2019.

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  1. Apr 17, 2019 #1

    abdullah

    abdullah

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    Hi
    I am a foreigner and my English is not very good. I hope I will do good wine . but I have trouble understanding the pH that controls the acidity of wine. I hope to answer these questions

    1) What solutions do I add to the pH?
    2) What is the best pH device in Amazon with a suitable price?
    3) After calibration How do I add the solution to the wine? I wish to explain it easily without complication
    Thank you dear
     
  2. Apr 18, 2019 #2

    sour_grapes

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  3. Apr 18, 2019 #3

    abdullah

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    Thank you so much
    Are there steps to calibrate, and are there pictures of the solutions that are added to the wine to correct the acidity?
     
  4. Apr 18, 2019 #4

    Johnd

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    Your meter should include instructions on how to calibrate it.

    If you are doing grape wines and need to adjust the pH / TA before alcoholic fermentation, you should have tartaric acid on hand the lower the pH (increase the acidity) and potassium carbonate to raise the pH (lower the acidity). Regardless of whether you are raising or lowering, add in small amounts, stir, and measure again before adding more. These musts have a habit of jumping way more than expected, so take your time and creep up on your goal.
     
  5. Apr 18, 2019 #5

    abdullah

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    I thank you
    I have benefited greatly from your feedback
    I want an easy industry because I'm a beginner and I'm afraid of the mistake, are the stripes enough.?, such a video, it's comfortable
     
  6. Apr 18, 2019 #6

    John Pichnic

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    'ana aistakhdam almasharib , wa'anaha taemal bishakl jayid bma fyh alkfayt biaistithna' ealaa alnabidh aldaakin. 'alwan alnabidh aldaakin almusharib 'akthar min allaazim.
     
  7. Apr 19, 2019 #7

    abdullah

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    dear Jhond
    Do I understand from these strips that if the calibration is less than 3.5 then acid acid mixture is added
    If more than 3.5 I add potassium carbonate?
    If this is true, what is the amount of addition?
    I would like an easy answer away from the complexities of mathematics
     
  8. Apr 19, 2019 #8

    Johnd

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    Strips are not very accurate, and very difficult to read, consider the electronic meter suggested above.

    There is no perfect pH for every kind of wine, they all have their nuances, and TA (another measure of acidity) needs also to be considered. I have no easy answer for you that will work for everything.

    There are a number of good books out there about winemaking, do some reading and studying on the subject. This one is particularly good: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/te...MI-rKWx5Dc4QIVA57ACh3tVQIWEAQYAiABEgJvW_D_BwE

    You could also read up online, here’s a link to a great source on nearly every topic: https://morewinemaking.com/content/winemanuals
     
  9. Apr 19, 2019 #9

    sour_grapes

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    In addition to what John, said, I should let you know that the effects are just the opposite: Acid will lower your pH, and potassium carbonate will raise it.
     
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  10. Apr 19, 2019 #10

    abdullah

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    I can only use the strips, because of the difficulty of the meter device,
    Which I understand that the strips only need to sample the wine before fermenting the tape is placed by then determine the pH, although not completely accurate, then add tartaric acid to the wine until the pH adjustment
    I do not know how to use meter . I do not know what solutions are used to taste a sample, I do not understand temperature, etc.
    The last question is, do I put the tartaric acid or the acid mixture directly into the wine, or mix it with a little water and then put it down?
     
  11. Apr 20, 2019 #11

    sour_grapes

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    I don't know what you are making wine from, but (considering everything you told us) my opinion is that you should forget about adusting pH. Just ferment and make your wine and enjoy it as it comes! It seems unlikely to me that you will make big improvements, so just enjoy what you get. I am sure it will be fine.
     
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  12. Apr 20, 2019 #12

    abdullah

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    I use only red grapes
    I thank you, but I am afraid to go into vain and spoil the wine, so I will use the strips only
    I wish you would answer only simple questions
    Did you use Tartaric before or after fermentation? How do I adjust the quantity? Do we mix it with water and then pour it into wine or put it in wine directly?
    Are the flavors: pectic Enzyme powder, wine Tannin, put before or after fermentation
    What is the appropriate quantity?
    The siphon, what better siphon is comfortable to use
    Thanks

    Who would like to help me In wine making
    thank you
    whatsapp
    00966553753695
     
  13. Apr 23, 2019 #13

    abdullah

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    up
    help
     
  14. Apr 23, 2019 #14

    Rice_Guy

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    GRAPE -- this is the traditional fruit for making wine, it is relatively easy and worked 1000 years ago without pH/ chemical addition etc. ---- a lot of adding chemicals is to improve the grape from an "OK" drink with dinner every day to a "WOW" only have once in a while at a cafe quality --- pH with grape should be in a workable range -- I do a lot of fruit wine so I am trying to copy the grape pH and TA
    -- pH paper is good with white wine and low color fruit juice. Paper strips do not work with highly colored juice,,,,, what does pH mean? in brief it means that the flavor is pleasing "balanced" what does titratable acidity (TA) mean? for the most part it means that there is depth/ long lasting flavor
    CHEMICALs -- We generally add chemicals before fermentation. Having a normal tasting pH will add shelf life, meaning that the chemical metabisulphite (camden tablet/ 0.5 gm metabisulphite) work better and * the wine has more shelf life. * the yeast we added do the fermentation. I add most chemicals directly to the grape juice.
    -Pectic enzyme- the purpose is to help pull juice out of fruit wines and to help clear the wine, I do not add pectase to grape wine
    -Tannin can be added to add a longer lasting flavor, you can make good wine without this flavor. Tannin can be added to help clean wine
    -Some chemicals are used to clean the wine. They are used if the finished wine is cloudy and not used if the wine is clear. Chemicals which are sold on Amazon will have directions as use 1 teaspoon per gallon (5 ml per 4 liter). Most of the world will talk ml.
    -- some people I know have make beer in jail/ prison without any chemicals/ pH meter/ carboys.
    OTHER -Siphon we use a plastic tube (nylon/ tygon/ polyethene/ etc) we like transparent tube so we can watch it flow

    you will make a good grape wine on your first try! your main problem will be how long does it taste good (a year?)
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  15. Apr 23, 2019 #15

    BernardSmith

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    Hi Abdullah, and welcome.
    Here's the thing: wine making can be as simple or as complicated as you want. If you make wine from any fruit - from apricots to pomegranates, from apples to mangoes, (you can make delicious wine, too from vegetables: zucchini or peas or carrots, or from flowers - hibiscus or elderflowers, are two examples, and then there is honey. Honey makes a delicious wine which can be dry or sweet), you can balance the acidity with sweetness. In other words, if the wine is too tart (acidic) you can stabilize the wine to prevent further fermentation and then add sugar to counter the acidity. If the wine is not acidic enough you can add acid by adding, lemon juice, for example, or tartaric acid or a blend of acids... but unless you are making wine to a very specific recipe and you are making this exact wine to be sold again and again and again then the best way to tell if a wine is too acidic or not acidic enough is by tasting it. Your tongue and taste buds are a far better tool than the most expensive pH meter you can buy. From your post, Abdullah, it is not clear to me whether you are planning on making wine for yourself or you are planning on learning to make wine to sell commercially.

    Let me assume that you are making wine for your own pleasure and enjoyment, then I would say you want to make wine in the least complicated way that allows you to make a delicious drink. In my opinion, there is really no need to worry about pH when you are making wine and the only time to PERHAPS think about pH is when you are aging the wine (storing it) and you need to know how much potassium metabisulfite (K-meta) you need to add to reduce the risk of oxidation. But for that purpose you are not trying to reduce or increase the acidity. You simply want to measure it. But unless you are making hundreds or thousands of liters of wine then you can simply add standard doses of K-meta and you can sleep without worries.

    Last point: are you planning on making wine from grapes sold for eating? Those grapes are unlikely to make very good wine: the amount of sugar they contain is not great and their flavor is not wonderful either. They also may not have much tannin. Wine grapes are not table grapes. If, however, you are planning on making wine from table grapes then the acidity of the grapes is not really going to be as great a concern as producing a wine with the richness of flavor that you might be expecting.

    Good luck! Wine making is a wonderful hobby.
     
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  16. Apr 24, 2019 #16

    abdullah

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    Thank you very much dear Smith
    We suffer very much in my country because wine of all kinds is forbidden, so we have only the domestic industry, where we buy things from Amazon and then make them
    I suffer from psychological stress that makes me love drinking wine
    I want a good wine
    What is the solution to withdraw the non-mouth siphon?
    I am afraid to move the bacteria
    How do I know room temperature after using a hydrometer
    The last line will encourage me to start
     
  17. Apr 24, 2019 #17

    abdullah

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    thank you my friend
    I have benefited from this response
     
  18. Apr 24, 2019 #18

    BernardSmith

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    Abdullah, If you live in a country or society where those in power view alcohol and wine making as wrong and where you cannot easily get the supplies you need to make wine I would focus on making wine from fruits that are abundant and delicious where you live. You can make delicious wines from all kinds of ripe fruits including dates and figs. I would choose local fruits over grapes and not choose grapes. Grape wine is only one kind of wine but the history of wine made by everyday people over hundreds and hundreds of years in all parts of the world covers wines made from pineapples, bananas, papayas, mangoes - whatever fruit was available.

    To be very precise, yes, hydrometers measure the density of liquids (specific gravity) at a fixed temperature but for thousands of years people made wine without such tools and if you simply ignore the difference in temperature and treat the readings as a good enough approximation you will not go wrong. If your hydrometer indicates at the start that the specific gravity (SG) reading is 1.090 then whether your room is at 70F or 90F that reading is "good enough" . The same applies after a few weeks of fermentation and the reading is 1.000 or .096 or 1.010.. These all are different but they all suggest that you are nearing the end of what is called "active fermentation" and what you really want to know is whether any next reading , say, a week later is identical or still shows that the SG , the density of the liquid is dropping. When it is rock solid stable and unchanging over a couple of weeks then you know that active fermentation is over.

    The most important thing to remember is that from the time of the Pharaohs people have been fermenting grains (beer) and fruit (wine) and honey (from dates and from bee honey) and they had no knowledge of science as we know it , and no exact measuring tools as we have them today. Quite simply, if you extract juice from fruit and place the juice in a container and allow yeast to make contact with that juice after a few weeks you will have wine. It won't be the greatest wine in the world but if you can keep that wine and allow it to age for 3 months without being exposed to the air it will taste even better and if you can keep it another 3 months it will taste better yet. Equipment and tools are useful but the greatest sprinters in the world, the greatest marathon runners on the planet all used to run barefeet. You CAN make great wine in a pot covered with a plate (to allow the carbon dioxide to escape and prevent dirt and flies from entering). It's not the equipment that makes good wine. It's the ingredients. (and it is also how well you ensure that the yeast has no competition from mold or other bacteria).
    Good luck.
     
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  19. Apr 25, 2019 #19

    abdullah

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    Hi Smith
    I'm a good reader and I know that wine was out of date for a lot of tuning, balance and tools ...
    I think grape wine is the best, especially since I have come a long way in reading it. The grapes are available here, and I admit that I am afraid of failure because I am a beginner. I hastily made wine from the fresh grape juice of the grocery and added it to yeast only with nothing else. I tasted it and it is very bad, so I decided to get ready to make a good wine
    What do you think of room temperature stickers? Is there a problem if the wine is pulled out of the mouth by the siphon? Or is the bacteria entering and spoiling the wine?
    When to put potassium sorbate
    Thanks
     
  20. Apr 25, 2019 #20

    BernardSmith

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    Here are my quick thoughts.
    1. Store bought grape juice is made to be enjoyed sweet. When you ferment out all the sugars you lose much of the intended flavor. Of course, you have made wine but the flavor of the alcohol may be overpowering the flavors of those grapes. Try adding some sugar to back sweeten a glass and see if it tastes better. The added sugar SHOULD bring out more of the grape flavor.
    You add K-sorbate when you plan on back sweetening (adding sugar) to a wine. So you add the K-sorbate just before you are ready to bottle the wine. You ferment, allow the wine to clear, taste the wine to know how sweet you want it to be, add Potassium meta-bisulfite AND Pottasium Sorbate, then add sugar, and then bottle.
    2. I live in upstate New York. I make my wine in my basement and the temperature there is around 60 - 65 F all year round. I don't use a thermometer to check it but if the basement is VERY cold or I want to ferment at a higher temperature I place my fermenting bucket in a large plastic container filled with warm water to which I add an aquarium heater (for tropical fish). If the room feels VERY warm I fill the same container with cold water. But there are wine makers that buy small inexpensive refrigerators and connect them to thermostats that control the temperature of the fridge and so they have complete control over the temperature at which they ferment. I make a gallon or two at a time and the wine I make is for my (and my family's ) pleasure and I prefer to make wine the simplest way I can.
    3. Unless you know you have some kind of infection (bacterial or viral) simply sucking on a siphon will not introduce any dangerous or spoilage microbes into your wine. First, the wine is alcohol. Second, you are not touching the inside of the tube. Third there is nothing to prevent you from dipping the tip of the siphon you intend to suck on into say, a glass of alcoholic spirits (vodka?) . Fourth, you can buy self -priming siphons that work without any sucking. And lastly, you can use the siphon you have, fill the tube with water, plunge one end into the wine and allow the water to drain out into another container very close by. This will start the vacuum the siphon needs to work This takes practice.. but it works.
     

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