PH is way too low on my finished cab.

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crabjoe

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I just took a taste of my cab I was going to bottle and it was sharp. Took a PH reading and it came in at PH 3.08. WTH? This was a Fontana kit that I made at 5.5 gallons. I had it in a 5 gallon carboy since late Oct.

So what should I do? All I have is calcium carbonate... and some baking soda in the cupboard. Should I adjust the PH to at least 3.4 or leave it. If I leave it, I might need to add a bit of sugar to remove the acid bite. If I put it outside for a few days to cold stabilize it, might it drop enough tartaric acid to make any difference?

If the proper thing to do is adjust it, what should I use, potassium carbonate or bicarbonate?

I guess this is what might happen when one has acidic tap water.. Dang well!

Thanks!
 
A kit should come in with a good pH. 3.5 ish
I just took a taste of my cab I was going to bottle and it was sharp. Took a PH reading and it came in at PH 3.08. WTH? This was a Fontana kit that I made at 5.5 gal!
? sharp, like acidic with bitter under notes: degas to remove the residual CO2. It is normal for a wine to have a lower pH and unattractive carbonic flavor at 3 months. Think you mentioned vacuum pump, could pull a vacuum on it for a week.
? sharp, like burn in the throat as it goes down: a burn indicates acetaldehyde (alcohol exposed to air). What was the head space for the last 3 months? Time to say Sh$@*!
? sharp like salad dressing with a vinegar aroma: What was the head space, did the air lock dry out? Again time to say Sh&#*
? sharp like acid blend: This variation could be fixed with potassium carbonate, on a finished wine I wouldn’t use calcium since it takes time to clean it out. Grapes have a lot of buffer capacity so I wouldn’t expect acidic water to change anything, not to mention that aluminum cook ware would be pitted and copper pipes would shine if you had acidic water.
 
A kit should come in with a good pH. 3.5 ish

? sharp, like acidic with bitter under notes: degas to remove the residual CO2. It is normal for a wine to have a lower pH and unattractive carbonic flavor at 3 months. Think you mentioned vacuum pump, could pull a vacuum on it for a week.
? sharp, like burn in the throat as it goes down: a burn indicates acetaldehyde (alcohol exposed to air). What was the head space for the last 3 months? Time to say Sh$@*!
? sharp like salad dressing with a vinegar aroma: What was the head space, did the air lock dry out? Again time to say Sh&#*
? sharp like acid blend: This variation could be fixed with potassium carbonate, on a finished wine I wouldn’t use calcium since it takes time to clean it out. Grapes have a lot of buffer capacity so I wouldn’t expect acidic water to change anything, not to mention that aluminum cook ware would be pitted and copper pipes would shine if you had acidic water.

This was like acid blend shape. It didn't burn my throat when I tasted it. Also, I had vacuum degassed it back in early December a few times. Head space was minimal, it was maybe 1.5-2 inches below the bung. When I had degassed, I did it in a 6 gallon carboy, then transferred back into the 5 gallon to top it off with some super cheap commercial wine.

I would have been ok thinking aging, if the PH tested around 3.2 for a red, but 3.08? I also heated some in the microwave then tested again.. it tested at PH 3.08 too.
 
BTW, if you put your wine outside to cold stabilize it, you’ll make the pH even lower, not higher.

Why would cold stabilizing reduce the PH even more? If anything I would think some acid might drop out as crystals, which then I could rack... to get a higher PH and a smoother taste.

Let's say the kit came in at 3.5. I can see shorting it would increase the acidity, but shorting it a 1/2 gallon shouldn't make this much of a difference. And with it having degassed and heated to remove carbonic acid from the sample, shouldn't I have gotten something higher than PH 3.08? Even if the starting PH was say 3.4, is it normal to see this kind of spread in a young wine?
 
Why would cold stabilizing reduce the PH even more? If anything I would think some acid might drop out as crystals, which then I could rack... to get a higher PH and a smoother taste.

Let's say the kit came in at 3.5. I can see shorting it would increase the acidity, but shorting it a 1/2 gallon shouldn't make this much of a difference. And with it having degassed and heated to remove carbonic acid from the sample, shouldn't I have gotten something higher than PH 3.08? Even if the starting PH was say 3.4, is it normal to see this kind of spread in a young wine?

In response to your first question, the answer isn't a simple one, but let's just understand that at pH's below 3.65, you can precipitate out some acid by CS, and it will lower your TA, but may well decrease your pH. At pH's above 3.65, your wine will behave as you expect in response to CS. Much discussion of this topic has taken place here over the years, I've attached an article for your review, it does a much better job explaining the chemical relationships and expected results of CS on wines of varying pH levels.
https://extension.psu.edu/cold-stabilization-options-for-wineries

As far as the second question, I can't tell you what to expect as "normal" in your kit wine, I never really bothered to mess around with pH with kits when I was still making them, and I didn't short the water additions when making them, so I've no experience to share with you. I will say that if you've made your kit to 5.5 gallons instead of 6 gallons, that you've shorted the water by nearly 10%. pH isn't a linear relationship, it's logarithmic, so it won't behave in a linear fashion, ie: decreasing the water by 10% won't result in a 10% decrease in pH, but if it did (a big but), pH intended to be 3.4 at 6 gallons would equate to a pH (10% lower) of 3.06 at 5.5 gallons. Again, understand that the relationship isn't linear, I'm only offering some food for thought, it may not get that low, it may get lower. One of the beautiful things about kit winemaking is that the chemistry is done for you, presumably by some well educated wine chemistry folks who have tested these things enough to ensure a good outcome.

Nuff said about that. Lots of folks are shorting cheap kits to increase body / ABV without a myriad of problems, and most don't ever test for pH, or do so with hard to read pH strips. Your wine isn't 4 months old yet, give it some time to go through the chemical changes that wines go through before you decide that you need to start monkeying around with the pH and / or TA. I can't recall ever making a "yummy at 4 months old wine", they are usually fruity, but green, disjointed, bitter, and sharp. Wines can, and will change a lot early in their lives, making changes too early with an uneducated palate may result in a worse outcome than if you wait. I'm really good at tasting mature, bottled wines and evaluating them, but I'm terrible with young wines that are early in the process, I don't have enough experience, and don't even try to mess with them until they're totally degassed, cleared, and aged at least a year. As stated earlier, your focus on adjusting acidity post fermentation, unless you have some major problem, should be based upon taste, not numbers, through bench trials with wines that are ready to be tasted and adjusted. Put the carboy aside, airlock it, and start some new wines, let's see what you have in June or July. Just my two cents.
 
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Put the carboy aside, airlock it, and start some new wines, let's see what you have in June or July. Just my two cents.

Thank you John. I'm going to take this advise.. top it off to within a 1in of the bung then hopefully forget about it for another couple of months to see what it might taste like then.
 
Just to back up what John said. I made a cab that was too acidic and it had a really sharp hot feel. I was extremely disappointed. I bulk aged for 6 months in the carboy and another 1.5 years in the bottle for a total of 2 years and it has transformed into a wonderful wine. It's calmed down and it shocked the daylights out of me when I tried it recently. Time is your friend. It's hard, but time is what you need....time.
 
* Taste is more dependent on TA than on pH ex cola will come in at pH 2.5 much lower than wines but the TA is low so it is hedonic.
You can normally "fix" or "balance" acidic taste with back sweetening.

I thought about adding a bit of sugar to it since the gravity is .992, but I'm not sure if I should. But if I were to, I don't think I'd take it to more then .998.

I'll see what it tastes like in 2 or 3 months, if there isn't much change, I might go the sugar route, because I don't plan on aging this in the carboy for years.. Might do a few bottles, but not in the carboy.
 
I write with experience. Six years ago I had a wine like that (not quite as low). It was bad enough though. Put it into batches tried a few things. Calcium carbonate - yuck. Never got used to the chalk taste. Hated it.
Patience - it was six years ago, and it is still very difficult to drink.
My suggestion is make another batch, find some water that isn't so acidic and use the acidic wine to adjust your acid levels.
It might need you to make two batches to share it, but at least you will be able to drink it.
 

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