Petit Sirah from Lanza Thread

[jgmann67]

So, I was in the wine room last night and remembered that Craig left me a bag of Potassium Bicarbonate. But I'm not sure I can use it here, though. While my TA is low, I think my overall pH is too high to use it. I may be misreading it (again, lawyer, not a chemist). If I can use it, the instructions also suggest a cold stabilization is necessary. In the dead of summer, best place for that is my garage fridge. How long would it sit out there?

 

[Johnd]

So, I was in the wine room last night and remembered that Craig left me a bag of Potassium Bicarbonate. But I'm not sure I can use it here, though. While my TA is low, I think my overall pH is too high to use it. I may be misreading it (again, lawyer, not a chemist). If I can use it, the instructions also suggest a cold stabilization is necessary. In the dead of summer, best place for that is my garage fridge. How long would it sit out there?

K Bicarb removes acid from your wine. If you have a high pH and a low TA, that means you need to add tartaric acid, not remove it with K Bicarb. You should be thinking about bench trials, adding tartaric in little increments to see where the taste really peaks, then move whole batch to that point.

 

[Boatboy24]

Actual picture of @ceeaton 's Zinfandel carboy. Don't think this will help much with the pH TA adjustment.......

You can see his clear 'straw' in there...

 

[jgmann67]

K Bicarb removes acid from your wine. If you have a high pH and a low TA, that means you need to add tartaric acid, not remove it with K Bicarb. You should be thinking about bench trials, adding tartaric in little increments to see where the taste really peaks, then move whole batch to that point.

Okay. Let's suppose my current 3.95 pH is where I am in the next test, so I should have about 2.5 ounces on hand if I decide that dropping it all the way down to 3.65 is best.

The directions suggest dropping 3.8g per gallon to lower the pH by 0.1. Let's say my bench trial size is a 375ml bottle, which is about a tenth of a gallon. So, I'd drop .38g, and mix well. How long do I wait to taste? And, should I drop the bottle in the fridge in the interim?

(can you tell I'm a noob at this chemistry stuff)

 

[Johnd]

Okay. Let's suppose my current 3.95 pH is where I am in the next test, so I should have about 2.5 ounces on hand if I decide that dropping it all the way down to 3.65 is best.

The directions suggest dropping 3.8g per gallon to lower the pH by 0.1. Let's say my bench trial size is a 375ml bottle, which is about a tenth of a gallon. So, I'd drop .38g, and mix well. How long do I wait to taste? And, should I drop the bottle in the fridge in the interim?

(can you tell I'm a noob at this chemistry stuff)

There's a bunch of ways to do it, consider this, the easiest thing to predict, is the TA outcome from acid addition. Your TA is 5.5 grams / liter. Adding 1 gram per liter should increase your TA from 5.5 to 6.5, easy enough. Never perfect, but usually close. The pH is less predictable, as all wines have different pH buffering capacity.

Monkey around with 250 ml (1/4 liters) and add .5 g/L to it (1/8 grams). Mix it, taste it, check the pH & TA, make good notes. Add another .5 g/L (1/8 grams), mix, taste, check. Continue until you get the taste you want, then adjust the batch slowly to the target, even over a few days.

Manage your sulfite based upon your pH, and don't stress over it if it doesn't end up at 3.6, there are some top rated commercial wines with pH's in the 3.8's and higher, they are manageable and age well.

 

[ceeaton]

Also, do 1/2 of the adjustment you think you want to do. That way you can see what the buffering capacity of the wine is, plus it always seems that 1/2 the adjustment works out pretty good. Easier to add more than try to "unadjust" for sure.

 

[ceeaton]

Actual picture of @ceeaton 's Zinfandel carboy. Don't think this will help much with the pH TA adjustment.......

It's missing the Xoakers and I didn't add any bubble gum to my batch, this time. Plus that straw is a little small, too much work to get a good mouth full of wine.

Been there, done that with a Pinot Grigio in 2016.

 

[geek]

Checked pH last night of my PS and it was 3.76, decided to leave alone and don't bother with checking the TA because the wine tastes very good.
Decided to bottle it.....black ink all the way with PS

 

[jgmann67]

Checked pH last night of my PS and it was 3.76, decided to leave alone and don't bother with checking the TA because the wine tastes very good.
Decided to bottle it.....black ink all the way with PS

Good to know. I'm planning to bottle the straight PS this fall once I get the pH taken care of.

 

[jgmann67]

Fascinating. So I added .5g/L... brighter. Another .5g/L and I liked it more... checked the pH. We're at 3.6. Didn't expect that.

I dosed it with Kmeta (it was due) and am going to leave it alone.

 

[ceeaton]

Fascinating. So I added .5g/L... brighter. Another .5g/L and I liked it more... checked the pH. We're at 3.6. Didn't expect that.

I dosed it with Kmeta (it was due) and am going to leave it alone.

Let it sit and check the pH in a few days or a week. It will change over time, take my word for it...

There are neat compounds in your wine that will buffer the pH change and probably make it rise again over time. I see that happen all the time in my beer making and in my fish tank water management.

I'll explain further what I know if I come over tomorrow.

 

[jgmann67]

Got done puttering in the garage and went to the basement to do a 50/50 blend of Lanza Zin and Lanza PS.

If the test flight is any indicator, this will be an excellent wine.

So now I'm the bailor of 6 gallons of primo wine. It can sit a while as the two wines introduce themselves.

Drinking some of the scraps right now and am pretty pleased with myself.

I think we'll let the 3 gal of Petite Sirah sit a while too. Not convinced I have the pH under control quite yet.

 

[ceeaton]

Got done puttering in the garage and went to the basement to do a 50/50 blend of Lanza Zin and Lanza PS.

If the test flight is any indicator, this will be an excellent wine.

So now I'm the bailor of 6 gallons of primo wine. It can sit a while as the two wines introduce themselves.

Drinking some of the scraps right now and am pretty pleased with myself.

I think we'll let the 3 gal of Petite Sirah sit a while too. Not convinced I have the pH under control quite yet.

That didn't take long...I don't even have the moussaka out of the oven yet!

 

[jgmann67]

That didn't take long...I don't even have the moussaka out of the oven yet!

We'll get hopping, bubba!

 

[jgmann67]

Testing the pH of the PS this Sunday. If it's higher than 3.8 on the Milwaukee, I'm going to give it another .5g/l dose until we're at 3.7-ish, or it just tastes too good to monkey with any further. Then, let it sit another week.

I ran into a problem doing a taste test with 250 ml... no way to accurately measure 1/8g.

 

[jgmann67]

The pH is nice 3.6/3.7 ish on the old Milwaukee.

The tester doesn't hold its calibration very well at all. Had to recalibrate before testing. I'll need to get more calibration fluid.

But it doesn't look like I'm going to add any more tartaric acid.

 

[Boatboy24]

The pH is nice 3.6/3.7 ish on the old Milwaukee.

The tester doesn't hold its calibration very well at all. Had to recalibrate before testing. I'll need to get more calibration fluid.

But it doesn't look like I'm going to add any more tartaric acid.

In that range, if it tastes good, you're darn near perfect.

 

[jgmann67]

I'll need to taste it again. It should be fine. But, I had just brushed my teeth before tasting today.

 

[Boatboy24]

I'll need to taste it again. It should be fine. But, I had just brushed my teeth before tasting today.

No comment...

 

[jgmann67]

Sampled another ounce or so. This wine is ready for the bottle, I think.

Going to the LHBS today to grab some Kmeta and look at some brand new bottles to put this in. Will bottle my second batch of Luna Bianca too (it's perfect). With the rain coming through, it's a good day to work in the basement.