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Operation Massa Family Red - Muscat-Alicante-Zinfandel

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Boatboy24

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That Rose looks pretty nice, AJ. I don't know about adding Malic, but you could always add Tartaric too. I like my Rose a little lower than where yours is right now. More like a 3.4 or 3.3.
 

Ajmassa

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That Rose looks pretty nice, AJ. I don't know about adding Malic, but you could always add Tartaric too. I like my Rose a little lower than where yours is right now. More like a 3.4 or 3.3.
Yeah I am super happy with how it’s looking too. Will def try tartaric out. Going to do some bench trials soon on it. If I had malic acid I’d trial some of that too. Might order some. Or maybe even acid blend. Read recently pre AF adjustments - tartaric. But Post AF acid blend can be utilized too. Totally forgetting the reasoning behind it tho
 

CDrew

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Your Rose looks exactly like mine. Definitely off pink headed to orange. Mine also went through MLF naturally. I did add back tartaric acid to drop the pH a bit. It's good now, and wife is drinking it tonight. In fact, she's almost wiped out the supply so it must have been ok. And that's from the "cursed" Mourvedre from last year. Looking forward to a Rose from nice grapes.

Adding malic back in? I wouldn't. How does it taste now?

How about adding lysozyme to both and mix together?

And speaking of Rose-I'm picking Barbera on Sunday for the express purpose of making Rose. Looking for 250-300 pounds and going big. That could yield about 6 cases in the end. With really good grapes this year, if I'm careful, it could be good. I'll update my 2020 thread.

Nice update @Ajmassa . I like Rose for the same reasons that wineries do. It's easy and ready early. Chill and drink. No pretense.
 

Ajmassa

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Adding malic back in? I wouldn't. How does it taste now?

How about adding lysozyme to both and mix together?

And speaking of Rose-I'm picking Barbera on Sunday for the express purpose of making Rose. Looking for 250-300 pounds and going big. That could yield about 6 cases in the end. With really good grapes this year, if I'm careful, it could be good. I'll update my 2020 thread.

Nice update @Ajmassa . I like Rose for the same reasons that wineries do. It's easy and ready early. Chill and drink. No pretense.
Eh. Just thinking out loud. Figured I took malic out. Why not put it back in? Tartaric and acid blend trials hopefully treat me right. Not opposed to anything. Need to wait to see what test shows before anything.
I know your itching to make another! Glad your making it happen. The Malbec mother wine this was from is showing great promise too. Really excited for that one.
And I’ll be right there with ya making another. Got 350lbs of Red Mountain cab grapes due in a few weeks. (Very stoked for this!) Still on the vine. Will saigneè and get some more rosé. Definitely learned a lot that 1st one And now I know more of what to expect. This time I will:
1. Dial in acid better pre AF
2. Cold Soak & rack off sediment before fermentation!
3. Use lysozyme to stabilize
4. Bleed off right away. And add back if color needs darkening
5. Listen to quality advice!


I wouldn't add malic either. Tartaric, maybe. And I would certainly try adding some red wine in more for color than anything else.
That’s a great idea! I didn’t even think to do that for the color. And the malic, yeah consensus seems that it’s not the best idea lol. Glad I have you guys to keep me straight!
 

Ajmassa

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Adding malic back in? I wouldn't. How does it taste now?
It actually tastes pretty darn good. If it wasn’t for that extra jug tasting better I’d probably not mess with it. But in direct comparison it it’s evident it’s lacking something. Just like when we bought the Cherokee. We test drove the Jeep 1st. Then a Honda CRV. ———should have never taken out the Jeep 1st!
 

sour_grapes

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but you could always add Tartaric too.

I wouldn't add malic either. Tartaric, maybe.

I made an acid adjustment with tartaric today.

Of course, this was just for my mango salsa. My mango was overripe, and so tasted a little flat. A few pinches of tartaric cured that problem! I have taken to keeping my jar of tartaric in the kitchen instead of the wine room! :)
 

Ajmassa

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I made an acid adjustment with tartaric today.

Of course, this was just for my mango salsa. My mango was overripe, and so tasted a little flat. A few pinches of tartaric cured that problem! I have taken to keeping my jar of tartaric in the kitchen instead of the wine room! :)
Gorgeous and a helluva improvise! Jealous of all the talent around here! The homemade dough and pizza, pizza ovens, all the bread makers, gourmet cooking, cheese makers, DIY’s out the wazoo etc etc.
 

CDrew

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It actually tastes pretty darn good. If it wasn’t for that extra jug tasting better I’d probably not mess with it. But in direct comparison it it’s evident it’s lacking something. Just like when we bought the Cherokee. We test drove the Jeep 1st. Then a Honda CRV. ———should have never taken out the Jeep 1st!
I don't understand. You bought a Jeep or a CRV? But very glad your wine passes the "tastes good" test!

On a side note, my parents, now in their 80s have had a series of CRVs since like 1995. These are great trouble free cars. Sadly, their current one, is likely their last.

I'm stoked for Sunday's Barbera pick for sure. All my other 2020 wine is in storage and out of the way. THe garage ambient temp is cooler, so hoping that that is sufficient for a cooler ferment. And if there's a lot, I'm going to do a Rose and a regular Barbera. Where we're picking has all they want, so what is left is ours. Could be good or bad, can't wait to see but the winemaker said the grapes are "perfect". I'm anticipating a good Barbera.
 

Boatboy24

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I made an acid adjustment with tartaric today.

Of course, this was just for my mango salsa. My mango was overripe, and so tasted a little flat. A few pinches of tartaric cured that problem! I have taken to keeping my jar of tartaric in the kitchen instead of the wine room! :)
What, no citric lying around? :D
 

mainshipfred

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Gorgeous and a helluva improvise! Jealous of all the talent around here! The homemade dough and pizza, pizza ovens, all the bread makers, gourmet cooking, cheese makers, DIY’s out the wazoo etc etc.
I only wish I had the time to learn how to cook like some of the members. I'm kind of jealous as well.
 

Ajmassa

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I don't understand. You bought a Jeep or a CRV? But very glad your wine passes the "tastes good" test!

On a side note, my parents, now in their 80s have had a series of CRVs since like 1995. These are great trouble free cars. Sadly, their current one, is likely their last.
I just meant that when we went to the place we were set on the CRV. But also were eying up the Jeep Cherokee. Cherokee was a bit more expensive. A bit bigger. A bit worse mpg. Took it out 1st. Handled better. Had more bells n whistles. More luxury type interior. the CRV really was great in its own right, but we left in the Jeep.

Good luck with your Barbera pick today!
 

chicken

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Great thread! I'm inspired to try something like this myself next fall.

Looking back through our wine log, I see that we made something we called "zincatel", a mixture of muscat and zinfandel, back in 1988. Frustratingly, our notes are rather incomplete, so I have no idea how well it came out!
 

Ajmassa

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Great thread! I'm inspired to try something like this myself next fall.

Looking back through our wine log, I see that we made something we called "zincatel", a mixture of muscat and zinfandel, back in 1988. Frustratingly, our notes are rather incomplete, so I have no idea how well it came out!
I know man. My notes are horribly unorganized. I write mostly everything down- but just log it as I do it. My copybooks are timelines. Not wine specific. And once bottled that’s it. No more notes. Does it say the blend? 50/50?

Not sure why or how it came to be, but blending reds with muscat got very popular amongst home winemakers - yet unheard of in commercial (I think). Never read about any of the history of it though.

my theory is that the muscat keeps the acid and ph in a safe range so it’s not needy. It can make a pleasant Med bodied wine perfect for meals. Able to be drank early. Not too heavy and with a perceived sweetness so everyone can enjoy it. Not too light so even big bold ppl can enjoy it. —- no clue if this is why though.
But for whatever reason- these type blends are still a neighborhood favorite- (was told by both my supplier in Philly and another joint by NYC (Carrado’s) it’s their biggest sellers).
 

chicken

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I know man. My notes are horribly unorganized. I write mostly everything down- but just log it as I do it. My copybooks are timelines. Not wine specific. And once bottled that’s it. No more notes. Does it say the blend? 50/50?
It was 42 lbs of muscat, 72 lbs zinfandel. I don't know how that proportion was decided upon (maybe upon the advice of the guy we bought our wine press from?). We also did a batch with 120 lbs with just zinfandel, and a couple of "false wines."

That was our first year making wine. We were already making beer, and also mead, and had thought vaguely of someday making wine. It all came together one day when our housemate reached for the classified ads, saying "I wonder if anyone's selling a wine press." And that's how we got a wine press, a crusher, a bunch of carboys, a 15 gallon demijohn, and couple cases of bottles at a price that was almost too good to be true.
 

Ajmassa

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It was 42 lbs of muscat, 72 lbs zinfandel. I don't know how that proportion was decided upon (maybe upon the advice of the guy we bought our wine press from?). We also did a batch with 120 lbs with just zinfandel, and a couple of "false wines."

That was our first year making wine. We were already making beer, and also mead, and had thought vaguely of someday making wine. It all came together one day when our housemate reached for the classified ads, saying "I wonder if anyone's selling a wine press." And that's how we got a wine press, a crusher, a bunch of carboys, a 15 gallon demijohn, and couple cases of bottles at a price that was almost too good to be true.
very cool. So the 30yr+ tradition started with you! I wish I had that background and experience to fall back on. Make sure you teach the younger family members enough to keep it goin! I regret blowing off crush and press days as a teenager and not asking more questions. By the time I had a genuine interest all the old timers with the real knowledge were gone.
 

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Funny story -I was inspired by the family blend (the "<unprintable ethnic slur> red") that AJ makes with red grapes and muscat so I decided to try the same type of blend since I have so many darn grapes this year. My Zinfandel was picked in early September and already done fermenting when I picked the Muscat. It was waaaay up in the hills (maybe 3000 ft? I have a Jeep Wrangler and I was starting to wonder if I'd make it back...) so ripe a month later than I would have expected Muscat to be. I had a 3 gallon carboy of Zin that was stressing me a bit because it had a gallon of head space, so I filled it with muscat juice. It's still fermenting slowly but I'm really curious to see how the combination turns out. If it's good as is I'll bottle it and have a case of <unprintable ethnic slur> red. If it's a bit too weird I have a bunch of Mourvedre and Zin that I can blend this combination into to give it some fruit pick me up.

This vineyard where I got the muscat (which is a VERY early ripening grape, BTW) had a bunch of Zin and Primitivo unharvested in October, when I was picking the Muscat. I thought there was some mistake or he wasn't able to sell them and was just leaving them to rot. I grabbed a few Primitivo (which is also a pretty early grape) berries to chew on and they were pretty tart. The guy who owned the vineyard saw my face and said "yeah, those will probably be ready in a few weeks."

I love the Sierra foothills -you go two miles and the harvest dates can change by a month... :)
 

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Many many micro climates in Amador, El Dorado (where I grew up) and Placer counties - which is important to know when buying property up there!

The zip code at my ranch is EIEIO.

We just picked, destemmed, crushed, pressed and put into the fermenter 12 gallons of Rose' from some decent CS and Merlot grapes. Picked "the valves" - the area around the the big irrigation valves that the machine harvester (this morning) works around but doesn't pick. I've picked "the ends" many times but never "the valves". $0.50 per lb since they'd normally have to pay to have those areas pruned and the fruit would just be composted.

Pictures of this morning's pick, and a macro bin headed to LA (4 to 5 hour drive) with a couple of SoCal pilgrims.



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