Old wine in a new barrel

[jgmann67]

Question for the barrel owning community. I have a Cab-Syrah blend that will be turning 1 year old. I hit it with 90 gr of French and Hungarian medium+ Toast oak cubes for each 6 gal of wine. I also have a 2 year old OVZin, which I think I dropped 60 gr of oak/6 gal carboy. The OVZ is a little light and tart while the C/S blend is really spot on.

They’re both going to be shuffled after this year’s crush and I have about 16 gallons of each.

Here’s the question: would you barrel age either of them? I was thinking I might.

Suggestions please.

 

[Boatboy24]

If you think they'd benefit, absolutely! I assume they haven't seen any barrel time thus far. New barrel? Neutral barrel? What size?

 

[NorCal]

I could see the Cab-Syrah benefiting from a little more time and micro-ox, flavor concentration. How much total SO2 have you added to the Zin over the past 24 months? After two years, I'd be itching to get that in the bottle due to total SO2 or risk of oxidation.

 

[CDrew]

Your oak amount sounds very high already. I used that amount on some 2018 Syrah that is still far too oaky for my taste and thus I would not risk even more oak. But it's your taste buds and if it can take a bit more oak than go for it, but my lesson was that too much oak is worse than too little.

Why not just make some wine this fall and age it in your barrel?

I agree with @NorCal that I'd bottle that one and move forward.

 

[jgmann67]

If you think they'd benefit, absolutely! I assume they haven't seen any barrel time thus far. New barrel? Neutral barrel? What size?

New barrel. Coming this fall from Fred. 8.4 galllon. The wine hasn’t seen any barrel time at all.

 

[jgmann67]

I could see the Cab-Syrah benefiting from a little more time and micro-ox, flavor concentration. How much total SO2 have you added to the Zin over the past 24 months? After two years, I'd be itching to get that in the bottle due to total SO2 or risk of oxidation.

i add 1/4 tsp of Kmeta every three months. I’m planning to bottle it next month if I don’t barrel it.

 

[NorCal]

That is what I would be concerned about.

1/4 tsp = 50 ppm
24 / 3 = 8 additions
8 x 50 = 400 ppm total SO2

In Europe the max total SO2 limit is 160 ppm, US 350 ppm. You may be approaching a sensory detectable amount in the wine. Also, know that the small barrel will impart a lot of oak flavors very fast.

 

[jgmann67]

Since I already oaked the Cab-Syrah blend, make I should wait and have that be the second wine through the barrel after this year’s blend.

But, I’m hearing (maybe mistakingly so) that I should skip it with the OVZ.

 

[winemaker81]

You're going to get a lot of oak character out of that new barrel in a short amount of time. I would be cautious about hitting already well-oaked wine with barrel time. If it was a neutral barrel, that would change everything completely, but it's new. Search on barrel time for wine in new barrels -- what I've read is that it's a relatively short time.

Since the OVZ has flaws, it may be that short barrel time (3 to 6 months) will improve it. I would probably bottle it, but your palate for oak appears to be higher than mine, so you may want to try it.

If you're happy with the Syrah/Cab, you may not want to mess with it. The enemy of "good" is not "bad", it's "better".

If you do barrel it, taste at least monthly. Also remember that the barrel does not have convection currents, so the taste will vary depending on where the sample is taken from the barrel. I have a neutral barrel and use cubes for character -- the wine at the bottom of the barrel tastes way over-oaked compared to samples from the top, but blending the barrel (during racking) smooths the wine out.

 

[mainshipfred]

FWIW my experience is the 1/4 tsp rule in glass is too much. I take quarterly SO2 readings for my carboys and never have to add that much, not even close. Barrels are a different story but still never a 1/4 tsp. I like to leave my levels around 40 to 50 ppm and only add enough to get it there. As far as oak in a new medium toast 30 liter Hungarian barrel goes and depending on your preference you can leave the wine in longer than most recommend. I have a Norton, which needs a lot of oak, in a new 30 liter barrel since February and you still can't get but a hint of it. @NorCal's comment of too much sulfite, I couldn't agree more.

 

[jgmann67]

To be fair, I may have missed a dose or two in two years.