Noblesse made wine cloudy

Discussion in 'Wine Making from Grapes' started by Ct Winemaker, Jun 2, 2019.

Wine Making Forum

Help Support Winemaking Talk by donating:

  1. Jun 2, 2019 #1

    Ct Winemaker

    Ct Winemaker

    Ct Winemaker

    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2018
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    13
    Gender:
    Male
    Looking for ideas. We have 18 gallons of Riesling made last fall (California grapes). It was looking good (clear) and near ready to bottle but a slight off taste and nose. It was suggested we try Noblesse which we did. It made the wine cloudy and appears like it will not clear. Wine originally went through bentonite & cold soak as well as KS Enzyme and was clear way before this episode with Noblesse.

    Has anybody else seen this with Noblesse? Any thoughts?

    Thank you
     
  2. Jun 26, 2019 #2

    MiBor

    MiBor

    MiBor

    IN VINO VERITAS WMT Supporter

    Joined:
    May 11, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Michigan
    I don't have any personal experience with Noblesse, but I know of someone who used it 2 years ago on a Chilean sauv-blanc and it clouded the wine. He had to use a clearing agent, Sparkolloid - if I remember correctly, and that solved the problem in a couple of weeks. I tasted that wine about 6 months after he bottled it, actually. It had good flavor and smell and a crisp finish. I think the Noblesse helped bring back the flavor in that wine, at a time when the winemaker wasn't sure if he was going to keep it.
     
  3. Jun 26, 2019 #3

    stickman

    stickman

    stickman

    Veteran Winemaker

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Messages:
    1,106
    Likes Received:
    827
    I'm just guessing, but the haze is probably protein based. Riesling is known for requiring more bentonite than typical, so the wine may have been on the edge of protein stability and the Noblesse may have pushed it over. Bentonite or even a small amount of tannin can usually clear the wine. Maybe do a trial with a sample to see what works.
     
  4. Jun 26, 2019 #4

    Johnd

    Johnd

    Johnd

    Large Member WMT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    5,093
    Likes Received:
    4,541
    Location:
    S Louisiana
    Here's the skinny from the website on Noblesse:

    "ICV Noblesse® is OMRI listed. It is a yeast derivative nutrient for use in red and white wines. Wines made with ICV Noblesse exhibit a more intense perception of ripe fruit together with an overall roundness and softness in the finish. There is decreased tannic intensity in the mid-palate.
    ICV Noblesse can help reduce undesirable aggressive characters or sensations of dryness. It can also help reduce the burning sensations common in higher alcohol wines and in wines made from botrytised grapes. The production process used for ICV Noblesse inactivates sulfite-reductase potential, greatly limiting the sulfur off-odors. Although immediate results are possible it may take three to five months for full integration.
    To Use: Mix ICV Noblesse in 10 times its weight in water or must (juice). Add during a pump-over or tank mixing. This product is partially soluble. Stir to maintain suspension before and during addition."

    Note the "partially soluble" part. It doesn't seem that you have any sort of pectin problem if you were clear before, so we can rule that out. I don't know if the suspended particles are positively or negatively charged, and your bentonite is long gone, so my suggestion is to try a pack of DualFine, which is just kieselsol and chitosan, a magical concoction for clearing.
     
  5. Jun 27, 2019 #5

    Ct Winemaker

    Ct Winemaker

    Ct Winemaker

    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2018
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    13
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks everyone for the thoughts and suggestions. Please keep them coming. We spoke with a local winemaking expert (consultant to several winerys), and he also thought it was likely protein based so suggested another round of bentonite, which we did (about 3 weeks back). It has now cleared back to about what it was before the Noblees, which was and still is a little hazy. We now have one of three 6 gal car boys back in the freezer (34 deg F) for cold stabilization. If that doesn’t work to remove the haze, the next plan is to try Super Kleer again (chitosen and kieselsol - already done once way back). I’ll let you all know how that goes, but if not good, we’ll probably try fine filtering ( 1 micron).

    Really beating this wine up so may end up with 18 gallons to; sweeten, blend, or make a lot of wine coolers! By the way, this is the wine in our pic under name.

    Thanks again
     
  6. Jun 27, 2019 #6

    stickman

    stickman

    stickman

    Veteran Winemaker

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Messages:
    1,106
    Likes Received:
    827
    Maybe you can provide some information on the process. You indicated above that this wine was from California grapes. Did you handle the grapes and do the normal crushing pressing settling etc.? Did the wine go through ML or have you been preventing it with kmeta or other means? pH and free so2?

    If you take a sample and expose it to air for 24hrs, does it get clear? If so , probably copper based haze.

    If you take a sample and heat to 175F, does it get clear, then back to hazy when cooled? If so, probably protein based.
     
  7. Jun 28, 2019 #7

    Ct Winemaker

    Ct Winemaker

    Ct Winemaker

    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2018
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    13
    Gender:
    Male
    Hello Stickman,
    Thank you very much for the testing method suggestions, never heard these before and will certainly give them a try.
    To answer your questions, the grapes were 8 cases, Central Valley Riesling. We processed the way we learned at the Musto Boot Camp and following the More Wine white wine book. Although this is the first time we made white wine from grapes, we have made several successful batches from fresh juice (not kits) and red wine from grapes. In regards to this specific process, it was as follows:
    -Initial PH = 3.82, Brix = 20. After adjustments (tartaric acid and sugar), we ended with PH=3.44, TA= 8.2, and Brix = 25.
    -Crushed grapes and kept cool with cooling tubes (ice) to about 65 deg F. Added Cinn-Free Enzyme during crush, and SO2 to 50 ppm. Kept cool.
    -Next day, pitched R2 yeast hydrated via go-firm method and used Opti-white, Fermaid O and K per normal process as well as Booster Blanc.
    -Fermentation went well / maybe a bit warm and fast. Fermented dry in about 5-6 days(-1/2 brix).
    -Racked into carboys and adjusted SO2 to the now PH of 3.38 (48 ppm SO2).
    -Allowed to settle for 2 weeks, racked to clean carboys, and started bentonite / cold stabilize / Super Kleer process.
    -After about 5 months, wine was still not perfectly clear and taste was "blah" so decided to try the Noblesse process, which brought us to where we are now.

    Riesling grapes.jpg Riesling Must.jpg Riesling press.jpg
     
    stickman likes this.

Share This Page