No Fermentation

[barbiek]

A good fermentation takes oxygen give it a good stir to get some oxygen to it. Next time a bucket with a dish towel draped over it. Give it a stir everyday, then transfer it to carboy when sg is 1010 don't worry about transferring some of the lees. I learned from this site not to throw it out! It's usually a quick fix to most problems that arise! You can throw a blanket or a jacket around it

 

[skeenatron]

Oh I fully agree with you that 1 ppm would obviously not be enough. However I'm not talking about free, or total SO2. I was referring to molecular SO2, sorry. I didn't realize it wasn't commonly discussed. It's basically the antimicrobial effectiveness of your sulfur addition. Here's a link about molecular, it's important stuff.

https://www.winebusiness.com/tools/?go=winemaking.calc&cid=60

 

[Tnuscan]

Campten tab = 0.44g x 6 gallons = 2.64g & 64ppm @ 6 gallons = 64ppm
Campten tab = 0.55g x 6 gallons = 3.30g & 75ppm @ 6 gallons = 75ppm

1/4 tsp K-Meta (powder form) = 1.6g & 75ppm total
Which is 25ppm over the required 50ppm @ 3.6pH using the 1/4 tsp.

The recommended level of molecular SO2 for red wines is 0.5 mg/L (ppm); for white wines is 0.8 mg/L (ppm); and for dessert wines is up to 1.5 mg/L (ppm). You can use this calculator to determine how much Free SO2 is required to protect your wine, based on its pH. Free SO2 over 50 mg/L (ppm) can be tasted and detected in nose of the wine.

Could this be why so many have trouble with slow fermentations, funny smells and tastes, when using Tablets.

6 gallons with a 3.6 pH needs only 50ppm SO2 using .8 molecular chart. Remember going over 50ppm is not advised if doing MLF.

Does this look correct? @Scooter68 and @skeenatron

 

[Sweetiepie]

Ok, so I am a little lost, ( still new to the lingo) but I found where my campden tablet said 75ppm per gallon. So if the ph is only 3.6, that would mean that I may of added to much. I just did what the package and recipe said. A tablet per gallon. So maybe try just 4 tablets per 6 gallons with these grapes next year? Am I understanding that right?

 

[sour_grapes]

Campten tab = 0.44g x 6 gallons = 2.64g & 64ppm x 6 = 384ppm
Campten tab = 0.55g x 6 gallons = 3.30g & 75ppm x 6 = 450ppm

Does this look correct?

Why did you multiply by 6 the second time (the part in bold)? If one tablet gives 64 ppm to one gallon, then 6 tablets still gives 64 ppm for 6 gallons.

 

[Tnuscan]

Why did you multiply by 6 the second time (the part in bold)? If one tablet gives 64 ppm to one gallon, then 6 tablets still gives 64 ppm for 6 gallons.

Didn't catch it, I knew that it seemed high. I had been working on it late last nite and saving a lot of ifno, copying and pasting moving decimals and redoing and that slipped by me. I even re read and re calculated before posting and still didn't catch it. Thanks! I am a scatterbrain.

 

[Tnuscan]

I use a different calculator and it requires 1.9grams of K-Meta for 50ppm. SO2

I meant to put that with the post above and missed it too.

 

[Tnuscan]

Why did you multiply by 6 the second time (the part in bold)? If one tablet gives 64 ppm to one gallon, then 6 tablets still gives 64 ppm for 6 gallons.

Do you or anyone else feel that the extra 25ppm is that bad? I know from reading that most of it gets bound during fermentation. But even the bound along with the free will halt Mlf if it is too high. So I figured extra may set primary fermentation back a little.???

 

[skeenatron]

If you want to know how much to add, check out wineadds.com.

http://www.wineadds.com/so2

I've cross checked their SO2 calculator manually with my own which is based on molecular weights, and it's legit. In fact its the only completely accurate SO2 calculator I've found on the web period. I highly recommend keeping your SO2 adds pre-inoculation to around 40-50ppm, which in Sweetiepie's case would be 1.58g-1.97g of K-meta for 6 total gallons. That's enough to keep native microbes at bay without inhibiting your yeast or MLF bacteria. After fermentation, do what you wish. I try to keep my sulfur levels at 45ppm free during aging and 35ppm free at bottling, in the bottle. Know your campden tablet weights or use quality potassium metabisulfite powder and weigh it out yourself, or make some dilutions. Whatever you gotta do. Just remember that too much of this stuff will wreck your wine, for sure.

 

[Scooter68]

So in where in these recommended ranges would the various fruit wines fall?
Red wines 0.5 mg/L (ppm);
White wines is 0.8 mg/L (ppm);
Dessert wines is up to 1.5 mg/L (ppm)
So The following would be considere??? - just for starters???

Blackberry Red?
Blueberry Red?
Black Raspberry Red?
Black Currant Red?
Strawberry White?
Peach White?


Based on the single use kits available any Red wine or Wine with a predominance of Ascorbic Acid cannot be reliably tested. This seems to be true with any of the single use kits I've found and that's from the makers of those kits. Seems like they have a very limited range of use.


Always interesting to learn more on here. So far I've been using normally no more than1 campden tablet every other racking (6-8 weeks then between additions.) Only one of my wines has what I would call a sulfite nose to it and that was an Apricot wine. I was wondering about Apricot and I've decided, even now suspecting an overdose of SO2, Apricot is not in my 'I gotta make more of that category of wine flavors) I also suspect that one of my Strawberry wines suffered from a similar fate but again, Unless I make it almost gooey sweet, Strawberries are not my on my fave list. So now I have to look into testing hardware ($$$ Ouch) because again, the titration single use kits won't do me any good since the majority of my wines are dark wines.

 

[Tnuscan]

Ok, so I am a little lost, ( still new to the lingo) but I found where my campden tablet said 75ppm per gallon. So if the ph is only 3.6, that would mean that I may of added to much. I just did what the package and recipe said. A tablet per gallon. So maybe try just 4 tablets per 6 gallons with these grapes next year? Am I understanding that right?

Your fine, if the fermentation started your good. I started using the 1/4tsp of powdered K-Meta method, I used to use the tablets alot until I noticed, instead of Potassium, they were sodium. I just switched because the LHBS said thats what they sent them, so that's what they were selling. I can tell you for a fact more wine is lost and tainted because of wrong SO2 levels than probably any other issue.

Too much, you smell or taste it, or the yeast stresses, too little the wine starts to ruin.

Morewine has Manuals https://morewinemaking.com/content/manuals that will teach you well, plus supply most all the items you need to make great wine.

Edit: Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Sweetiepie]

Your fine, if the fermentation started your good. I started using the 1/4tsp of powdered K-Meta method, I used to use the tablets alot until I noticed, instead of Potassium, they were sodium. I just switched because the LHBS said thats what they sent them, so that's what they were selling. I can tell you for a fact more wine is lost and tainted because of wrong SO2 levels than probably any other issue.

Too much, you smell or taste it, or the yeast stresses, too little the wine starts to ruin.

Morewine has Manuals https://morewinemaking.com/content/manuals that will teach you well, plus supply most all the items you need to make great wine.

Edit: Sorry for the confusion.

Thank you so much for the yes or no answer. I still am trying to understand, what I am suppose to be doing. So many ways to make wine. Currently trying to understand MLF.

It doesn't help that I haven't been able to drink alcohol of any kind for over 20 years because it just plain upset my stomach in any amount. But recently did the Whole 30 diet and have found that it now tolerates low alcohol wines. Which is great because High Fructose Corn Syrup was found to cause me joint inflamation while on the diet. So trying to use my grapes I have up and if I can drink it, even better. Anyway, on top of the wine making lingo, trying to figure out what I like, and what the type of wines mean also.

So thank you.

 

[Tnuscan]

Mlf, simplified, is adding a bacteria that converts malic acid into lactic acid, a softer more rounded acid. To achieve this the so2 levels need to be under 50ppm,this lets them start doing what you want them to. Also a correct amount of mlf nutrient is added to keep them happy and healthy. Along with this nutrient we leave behind a small amount of lees. Here is the normal process.

Conduct primary fermentation, when brix reaches 0, press to carboy under airlock with minimal headspace, let gross lees settle 2 days, rack again, then add mlb(bacteria with nutrients)Leaving minimal headspace{following directions of mlb}. Gently stir every two weeks until conversion is completed (anywhere from 4 to 12 weeks), by testing (taste/chromotography). When complete, rack add so2 required by pH level (reading using charts). This starts the aging and dialing in process to suit your taste.

 

[Rosa321]

I'm glad you started this thread!

I pitched yeast yesterday and usually it is bubbling away 24hrs later. Today, nothing!
I'm getting nervous as it smells good and I don't want to lose the whole batch.

I have my brew belt on but it is quite cold and I'm wondering if that is the problem.

Is it advised to wait the 72hrs before re-pitching the yeast?

 

[skeenatron]

I'm glad you started this thread!

I pitched yeast yesterday and usually it is bubbling away 24hrs later. Today, nothing!
I'm getting nervous as it smells good and I don't want to lose the whole batch.

I have my brew belt on but it is quite cold and I'm wondering if that is the problem.

Is it advised to wait the 96hrs before re-pitching the yeast?

What can you tell us about your fermentation? Fruit, yeast, Temps, adds, stuff like that.

 

[Rosa321]

I should also add that I used 71B-1122 instead of EC-1118 (which I used exclusively before) because this is a blackberry wine. I'm not sure if there is a difference there between fermentation start times with those two yeasts.
I do have yeast nutrient and energizer in there along with pectic enzyme (it's Danger Dave's Dragon Blood Recipe)
I did use 1/4 tsp Kmeta at the start since they are wild blackberries.
Temp is pretty cool, even with the belt on (66F).

I did, however, see a few frothy bubbles at the top when I went to check the temp. Could be left over from when I stirred it this morning, or could be something starting...
Maybe it's just the cooler temp and I'm over-reacting (wouldn't be the first time! haha ). It's just never taken this long to start.

 

[Scooter68]

Data from the manufacturer : The 71B strain is a rapid starter with a constant and complete fermentation between 15° and 30°C (59° and 86°F) that has the ability to metabolize high amounts (20% to 40%) of malic acid.

BUT : All the other factors weigh in along with Temperature like acidity. The other thing is that at colder temps even if the yeast is fine with that temp the K-meta might be slower to dissipate and therefore slow or prevent the yeast from starting promptly.

Patience - give it another 48 hours before you worry much. And don't forget not all fermentations are lively bubblers. Most of my fruit wines haven't generated a large foam cap. Assuming you are doing an open bucket with cloth cover or loose fit cap? If you use an airlock on a bucket with a plastic cap - don't expect to see bubbling - The bucket lids leak air so unless you wet that sealing gasket down and achieve an air-tight seal you may never see any bubbling with a plastic lid on a bucket. (Been there done that.)

Hang in there.

 

[skeenatron]

Probably still just going through the lag phase, which can be elongated by a cooler start temp, though 66F isn't that bad really. I wouldn't touch it for another 24 hours but having a plan ready is a good idea.

Happen to know the temp difference between the yeast slurry and the juice when you pitched? Also how much total volume are we dealing with?

 

[Rosa321]

Data from the manufacturer : The 71B strain is a rapid starter with a constant and complete fermentation between 15° and 30°C (59° and 86°F) that has the ability to metabolize high amounts (20% to 40%) of malic acid.

BUT : All the other factors weigh in along with Temperature like acidity. The other thing is that at colder temps even if the yeast is fine with that temp the K-meta might be slower to dissipate and therefore slow or prevent the yeast from starting promptly.

Patience - give it another 48 hours before you worry much. And don't forget not all fermentations are lively bubblers. Most of my fruit wines haven't generated a large foam cap. Assuming you are doing an open bucket with cloth cover or loose fit cap? If you use an airlock on a bucket with a plastic cap - don't expect to see bubbling - The bucket lids leak air so unless you wet that sealing gasket down and achieve an air-tight seal you may never see any bubbling with a plastic lid on a bucket. (Been there done that.)

Hang in there.

Thanks! I do have a loose fitting lid on. The other fruit wines I've made did produce some ferocious bubbling. I've never made a blackberry wine before.

I'll hang in there and see what happens. And I'll try not to panic!

 

[Rosa321]

Probably still just going through the lag phase, which can be elongated by a cooler start temp, though 66F isn't that bad really. I wouldn't touch it for another 24 hours but having a plan ready is a good idea.

Happen to know the temp difference between the yeast slurry and the juice when you pitched? Also how much total volume are we dealing with?

Thank you!

I don't know the exact temperatures, but when I initially mixed the yeast and water it was 100F (not sure what it was 15mins later) and the slurry was measuring around 55F earlier that day (I didn't have the brew belt on long before pitching the yeast).

I'm just reading up on this now. Maybe it was too great of a temperature difference for the yeast?

Also, it's a 6 gallon batch.