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Sweetiepie

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I am sorry for asking about no fermentation, I know their has been many posts on this already. This is my first attempt and only know what I have read from books and online. But my question is when does one give up and dump it?

Started 3-6-2017
I am making 6 gallons of valiant grape wine?
I did sterilize equipment before I use it each time.

I used 5 gallons of the juice that I canned from last grape season.
One gallon water.
PH was 3.6 and since I am new and some sources said that was fine, I left it until I get more experience.
I added sugar to bring the SG to 1.090 and Brix 22.
I added a campden tablet for each gallon.
I put the lid and bubbler on.

After 24 hours I added yeast nutrient to 104 degrees, 25 ml of water and then a packet of EC-11118 yeast and let it sit for 20 minutes then added about the same amount of must to the water and let it sit for 20 more minutes. . I did that because I read that in a book. It was then 80 degrees. Then put it in the must. Temp of must was 62. I read some where about cold fermentation brings out more flavor.
I put the lid and bubbler back on. Set it on a heating pad which only kept the must at 64. After 48 hours no fermentation.

I then read that the temp should be warmer so I put it on top of my radiators and the must has been holding at 72-74 degrees.

At 72 hours still nothing. I have been stirring every day and checking SG, etc. and the numbers are the same as I started. It tastes like sweetened grape juice with no off tastes.

So upon further research, I found out that I should not have put a lid on it and so I have it covered with a cheese cloth. I added 3 more tsps of yeast nutrient to the the must and then directly added the yeast to the top of the must. Since I am so confused on what I should do with the yeast, so many contradicting ways.

It's now 24 hours after the second batch of yeast and 96 hours after the first batch of yeast.

My question is how long should I wait, should I dump yet more yeast, I only have one more package of that type of yeast, if I do, what method of dispersal do you recommend? When does one give up?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this thread.
 

Tnuscan

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I am sorry for asking about no fermentation, I know their has been many posts on this already. This is my first attempt and only know what I have read from books and online. But my question is when does one give up and dump it?

Started 3-6-2017
I am making 6 gallons of valiant grape wine?
I did sterilize equipment before I use it each time.

I used 5 gallons of the juice that I canned from last grape season.
One gallon water.
PH was 3.6 and since I am new and some sources said that was fine, I left it until I get more experience.
I added sugar to bring the SG to 1.090 and Brix 22.
I added a campden tablet for each gallon.
I put the lid and bubbler on.

After 24 hours I added yeast nutrient to 104 degrees, 25 ml of water and then a packet of EC-11118 yeast and let it sit for 20 minutes then added about the same amount of must to the water and let it sit for 20 more minutes. . I did that because I read that in a book. It was then 80 degrees. Then put it in the must. Temp of must was 62. I read some where about cold fermentation brings out more flavor.
I put the lid and bubbler back on. Set it on a heating pad which only kept the must at 64. After 48 hours no fermentation.

I then read that the temp should be warmer so I put it on top of my radiators and the must has been holding at 72-74 degrees.

At 72 hours still nothing. I have been stirring every day and checking SG, etc. and the numbers are the same as I started. It tastes like sweetened grape juice with no off tastes.

So upon further research, I found out that I should not have put a lid on it and so I have it covered with a cheese cloth. I added 3 more tsps of yeast nutrient to the the must and then directly added the yeast to the top of the must. Since I am so confused on what I should do with the yeast, so many contradicting ways.

It's now 24 hours after the second batch of yeast and 96 hours after the first batch of yeast.

My question is how long should I wait, should I dump yet more yeast, I only have one more package of that type of yeast, if I do, what method of dispersal do you recommend? When does one give up?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this thread.
Make sure the yeast is not out of date. Will be stamped along the outer edge.
 
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Tnuscan

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Oh, you should notice some activity within the next 24 hr, if yeast is good.
 

Scooter68

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This time of year with house temps rising and falling I've had some very long delays in start of fermentation. 3-4 days at times. Keep us posted over the next day or two - and the more consistent the temps the better. Too hot or too cold is not good for ally those little yeast beasties.
 

sour_grapes

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I like your second method, and I suspect your present situation is fine. I don't know why your first yeast did not take off (perhaps it was the sulfites), but I suspect your second yeast will work. However, it does sometimes take 48 hours before you get any visible activity.
 

Sweetiepie

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Thank you, I just bought the yeast being a newbie. It says 2-2018 and it's been in the frig this last week.
 

Tnuscan

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Thank you, I just bought the yeast being a newbie. It says 2-2018 and it's been in the frig this last week.
This (cold yeast) could be the problem. I wouldn't go from fridge to must or fridge to heated water. I would let the yeast reach room temps and then pitch.

It's really good if the yeast and the must are within a few degree of each other, when sprinkling on top of must.
 
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Sweetiepie

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I think I am finally seeing some activity on the top but the numbers are all the same.

When do I put the lid and bubbler back on?
 

NorCal

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Below is a cut and paste of the producers instructions on their spec sheet, except I changed the temps to Fahrenheit. The chart shows the highest fermentation activity at 80-84 degrees.


Rehydrate EC-1118 in 5 times its weight of potable water at 104°F. Let stand for at least 20 minutes then gently stir occasionally to break up any clumps. Add to the must.
- THE TOTAL REHYDRATION DURATION SHOULD NEVER EXCEED 45 MINUTES
- AVOID COLD SHOCKING THE YEAST. THE TEMPERATURE DROP BETWEEN THE MUST TO BE INOCULATED AND THE REHYDRATION MEDIUM SHOULD NEVER BE >50°F (if any doubt, please contact your supplier or Lallemand)
- IT IS ESSENTIAL TO REHYDRATE THE YEAST IN A CLEAN CONTAINER.
- INITIAL REHYDRATION IN MUST IS NOT ADVISABLE.
 

meadmaker1

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Im no expert but in reading back through your post. I dont beleive you should air lock during the first 24 hrs after adding campdon tabs. Usually a towel or loose lid , adding air lock after adding yeast.
I beleive to allow gasses to develop from tabs but maybe someone can shed light on this.
 

NorCal

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I think I am finally seeing some activity on the top but the numbers are all the same.

When do I put the lid and bubbler back on?
If I have a fast fermentation, I'll let it go dry, then press and put airlock for mlf. My whites/rose when I'm looking for a slower, colder fermentation, I'll put under airlock when the brix drop to 5 or so. My thinking is that there is less CO2 being produced at that time and the whites are more prone to oxidation.
 

Scooter68

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Gassing off and oxygen intake are significant factors and could inhibit the yeast but unless the yeast is totally killed off by a hostile environment it should kick in - just make take a little longer. AND of course watch the temperature fluctuations. Warm and then Cool cycling of the must isn't conducive to reproduction cycles.

Didn't see any comments about stirring the must at least once a day. Have you been doing that? That helps incorporate oxygen, free excess SO2 and keep the yeast from settling out.

If you have warmed up the room to anywhere near the max temps for the yeast you might check the fermentation container temps. The process generates significant heat when going full steam so you don't want to get it overheated either.

But don't go with any mood music - it doesn't seem to help. :)
 
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Sweetiepie

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Thank you all so much, I now have very active fermentation on top of the wine and you are correct it is warming up, it is at 78 now, so I took it off the radiator and it's back on the floor, and I will monitor temp. I really don't have a counter or table to put it on that isn't in full light all day. Just hoping for warmer weather soon. Last night my readings were the same as the beginning but I am hopeful I will see a difference tonight.
 

AZMDTed

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..., it is at 78 now, so I took it off the radiator and it's back on the floor, and I will monitor temp.
Just a final thought. If you set the carboy on the floor you may want to raise it up a bit. Either set it on some wood or maybe a folded blanket. If it's a cold floor it will act as a heat sink for the rest of the carboy with 78 degrees near the top and maybe 60 at the bottom. Giving it a little insulation between it and the floor will help.
 

Scooter68

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Yup and if you have some cardboard or an old blanket you can wrap that round the bucket to help keep the warmth in. Most yeasts are OK at temps over 65 degrees especially once they are working - as yours clearly is .

Congrats
 

skeenatron

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How much sulfur do those campden tablets add? I just looked a random brand up and read that one tablet provides 75ppm free SO2 per gallon? Even though that is very dependent on pH, that still seems like a lot. EC1118 has a big time kill factor and will overpower almost any wild yeast you might have in there. I'd personally recommend you try cutting your campden tablet use in half before inoculation to keep your environment from becoming too hostile to your yeast.
 

Sweetiepie

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I did put it on a folded up towel, next to the radiator but not on it and it has stayed at 76. Wrapping it with a towel or blanket is a a good idea. Thank you.

The campden tablet say they are 57 percent sulfer dioxide. I did use canned juice too so, you are probably right I could of used lots less because most bad stuff should of been killed when I canned it.

Readings were SG 1.08 and Brix is down to 19.
 

Scooter68

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No problem with your use of the campden tabs. The only change I can see is to just cover the bucket with a towel during after adding the campden tabs and that's something not all people do.

Clearly your fermentation is now working so all is well.

SG started at 1.090 and is now 1.080? That's good. Just monitor it once a day and stir once a day after your SG check. When it gets to 1.010 you should be ready to rack to a carboy for secondary fermentation.

One more thing is to just keep good notes on this fermentation.
 

skeenatron

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No problem with your use of the campden tabs. The only change I can see is to just cover the bucket with a towel during after adding the campden tabs and that's something not all people do.

Clearly your fermentation is now working so all is well.

SG started at 1.090 and is now 1.080? That's good. Just monitor it once a day and stir once a day after your SG check. When it gets to 1.010 you should be ready to rack to a carboy for secondary fermentation.

One more thing is to just keep good notes on this fermentation.
I don't use campden tablets but based on what I've read about them, it sounds like the molecular sulfur levels of his starting must are right around 1ppm, which is more than a bottled, finished wine. Maybe I'm missing something on these tablets but if that's correct, I would definitely cut that down by at least half next time. You'll have much better kinetics in my opinion.
 

Scooter68

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During the prep of a wine must we want to neutralize as much of the bacteria and wild yeasts that may be in the must. We could not achieve that with 1ppm rates.

1 Campden tab per gallon is pretty much the standard rate of dosage you will find on these forums. If you feel that 1ppm is adequate - go for it and measure out that amount from the standard K-Meta powders sold for wine, mead and beer making.

The tablets are pre-measured to provide the correct amount of S02 for a gallon of wine must. I've not heard of anyone reporting a problem at that rate of dosage. For those of us who make 1 gallon batches the tablets are far easier to use than trying to get the right amount of K-Meta powered form even with a digital scale. The majority of the K-Meta powder form is used at a rate of 1/4 teaspoon per 5 gallons - that would require measuring out 1/5 of a quarter teaspoon to get the recommended 30ppm for a gallon.

The only issues I've seen reported and substantiated with Campden tablets has to do with not sufficiently crushing and dissolving them before addition to a wine must. Unless you add the dissolved tablets and fail to wait the recommended 24 hours before adding yeast - it's not that much of an issue. We've even had folks grossly overdose with the K-Meta powder and successfully start a fermentation by waiting a few extra days.

Finally the rates for bottling aren't really applicable to the fermentation and pre-fermentation times since most folks wait several months to a year (or more) before bottling. During that time the SO2 is dissipating and in fact that's why most folks subscribe to a dosage of K-Meta every other racking.
 
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