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mauijoe

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In the initial stage after introducing the yeast, you would want the temp to be up around 70+ ....leaving the fermenting bucket on the floor at 67- isn't an environment that yeast can multiply in..although we have done some "white grape" starts in even colder temps.,. for some wines. Locking down the lid cuts off the needed oxygen for the yeast. Through experience we have found that allowing maximum air by covering the lid with a "breathable cheese cloth (prefer a new diaper material) and tying down the rim so that the fruit fly doesn't have access to the musk and change it all to vinegar. Some winemakers will rap a heating pad (been there) around a 6 gal. and watch the temp maintain, along with pumping an aquarium air stone will give an adequate environment for the yeast to multiply and do their job.

Punching down (musk) in this case since you threw that away is not required in this case, however some mixing initial can contribute bubbling (oxygen) introduced to get your yeast more active. ..trying to avoid a "stuck fermentation cycle. Also adding sugar directly into the fermenting bucket ....it"s better to do the stove meltdown and add that then to the mix. Now you have to wait for the conversion of the sugar to get a proper reading...hoping you're within the acceptable range. Other than that, it should get going. Hope this helps some.
More patience, have another glass...:b
 

Chirata

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Mahalo MauiJoe for the advice as reassurances. I don't think I have any old cloth diapers anymore, it's been 30 years.... But I do have cheesecloth and the rubber band that I cut off the paint strainer bag. It may work. So lid off again! At least I got to see the air bubbles in the air lock and do a happy dance several times!
With the help from folks like yourself it's a bit easier to be patient, of course a glass or two helps as well
 

mauijoe

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Excellent!..using the rubber bands is good ....until they get old and snap loose...hoping that never happens,(did to me) you might want to (when you have time?) take a piece of a nylon strap that they sell at the sewing centers and get some Velcro. Sew one one end either the male or female end and wrap that around your fermenting bucket to measure the circumference...attach the opposite to the other then create an "expandable strap." to tie in your overlaid cheese cloth..(monitor the cheese cloth, sometimes those "pukas" get larger than the fly) close to the bucket rim to seal the cloth. You may want to wet the cloth first than stretch it across the bucket opening to hold it in place while you secure the rim. We usually use both the rubber bands for a "quick lock", then take the time to stretch the band for a "piece of mind" knowing all is good.
Check out the material store for "raw linen" cloth. This material is strong-lasting and breathable! Cut a circumference of the cloth about 4+ inches over size of your bucket to allow for the overhang needed so that you can secure the cloth down the sides of the bucket.....and you will be able to re-use this cloth over and over. Each time you wash out the fermenter you can do the cloth and reuse it on your next ferment.
Hope this helps some.
 
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Chirata

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I'm finding it interesting as I read all the post on this thread and others how many people have different techniques. Which is probably why I was so confused as I began (and still am) as it doesn't seem that there is one cut and dried method. MauiJoe suggested removing the primary core because the yeast like oxygen, while Julie suggested snapping on the lid and air lock and letting it rip! :)
So I have cut a large piece of a brand new very fine cheesecloth from my cheese making cupboard and fitted temporally with the elastic band (though next time I go to Hilo or Kona I will by some strapping and attach the Velcro...a brilliant idea btw mauijoe. I had a heating pad on one side for awhile just to get the temp up and then turned it on low again for overnight. So now my house smells like I have a lot a very happy wine yeast passing gas!
I think I understand the next step, which is to have patience and wait until the SG is around 1.010 or so then rack it into the carboy or possibly in this case 3 1 gallon glass wine bottles? And then wait some more? This original fermentation can take 1 week or so on an average?
 

mauijoe

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Good job! Different methods work for some people who basically do the same thing but in a different way. My understanding with your present condition was that the yeast was not active at all after spending the night in the cold? So we're fortunate here in the tropics to mostly have ideal conditions all year around and occasionally at the present we need to adjust for more favorable warmth that yeast need to multiply as well as food and oxygen.
So when you notice that they're processing the sugars and the actions is decreasing, take a reading and get ready to rack to a cleaned out carboy/ or gallon jugs....carefully not trying to get that sediment buildup in the primary and filling you gallon units with it. When racking each jug, hold the hose high enough within the neck of each jug to create as much bubbles in the beginning to get "oxygen" pumped in and slowly go until you're about 3-4 inches away and stop....going to the next jug. You can always come back with a sanitized measuring cup and top up to below the bung around 2 inches or so, add the airlock and watch her sing.
The idea here when you rack is to make sure that the yeast is still active within the primary which helps create a good pressure to not allow dead air in to the gallon. I am trying to make it simple without the use of technical words. The yeast with be going on...it can be one or two more days or more depending on what is left for them to convert. Just make sure you take the time to go slow and enjoy the process and keep everything as sanitary as an ER.

Is there action happening in the primary since you gave them "first aid?"
 

Stressbaby

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Chirata, if you have pics, we'd love to see them.
FWIW, I do basically what Joe does, I just leave the lid loosely on, and stir it once or twice a day to be sure the yeast has plenty of oxygen which they need to multiply.
The only thing I'd add to Joe's last post is that the only time I would leave 3-4 inches of dead space at the top is the first time you move the wine from primary into the carboy. At that point you are around 1.010 and the yeast is still active. All of that air space at the top will be replaced with CO2. The increased air space gives you a little cushion in the event that you still get some foaming. Later you can "top up," then the next and subsequent rackings should bring the wine much closer to the top to reduce that airspace and reduce risk of oxidation.

Question for you and Joe, are you making any other tropical fruit wines?
 

mauijoe

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Aloha! For me, I am on cruise control while I wait for gifted Hayden Mangoes and Lychee. Been wine making 101 with a couple of interested friends to the hobby at their homes since the beginning of summer. Been trying to get them to join a forum....:( The freezer is stacked with papaya, pineapple, strawberry guava, and some unknown leftovers...Maybe i"ll get interested in doing a "fruit cocktail." Wife said no room for the real food...oh well.....
 

Chirata

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Stressbaby said:
Chirata, if you have pics, we'd love to see them.
FWIW, I do basically what Joe does, I just leave the lid loosely on, and stir it once or twice a day to be sure the yeast has plenty of oxygen which they need to multiply.
The only thing I'd add to Joe's last post is that the only time I would leave 3-4 inches of dead space at the top is the first time you move the wine from primary into the carboy. At that point you are around 1.010 and the yeast is still active. All of that air space at the top will be replaced with CO2. The increased air space gives you a little cushion in the event that you still get some foaming. Later you can "top up," then the next and subsequent rackings should bring the wine much closer to the top to reduce that airspace and reduce risk of oxidation.

Question for you and Joe, are you making any other tropical fruit wines?


image-3803126798.jpg

As requested I've attached a couple of pics. First is my primary bucket, now on a towel and covered with the very fine cheesecloth
 

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Chirata

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Second is the fine layer of bubbles on top. As I gave it a good swirl it created a more foamy layer of bubbles but then it disappeared down to this again. I expected there to be more foam on top?
This is my very first adventure with wine making but I do hope to try some other tropical fruits when my other trees begin fruiting such as my lilikoi's and table guavas.
 

Stressbaby

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Second is the fine layer of bubbles on top. As I gave it a good swirl it created a more foamy layer of bubbles but then it disappeared down to this again. I expected there to be more foam on top?
This is my very first adventure with wine making but I do hope to try some other tropical fruits when my other trees begin fruiting such as my lilikoi's and table guavas.
Not necessarily if you have already removed the pulp. Thanks for posting pics!

The freezer is stacked with papaya, pineapple, strawberry guava, and some unknown leftovers...Maybe i"ll get interested in doing a "fruit cocktail." Wife said no room for the real food...oh well.....
My first wine was a guava wine and it turned out really well. It was roughly 1/3 lemon guava, 1/3 strawberry guava, 1/3 regular guava. Next guava wine will be straight strawberry guava.
 

Chirata

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I forget to mention the the SG is down to 1.070 this afternoon. I began at 1.093 as I forgot to add the .03 for the temp difference. Fingers crossed! I'm hoping that because there is bubbling going on and the SG is reducing that I am on the right track?
Stressbaby, where do you get your strawberry guavas from? That sounds delicious! I recently ran across a passion fruit/lilikoi wine recipe and look forward to that as we have 3 varieties planted.
 

mauijoe

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Strawberry guava is a great fruit. We had a fairly large tree that gave nearly 30 lbs. of fruit per season. There is a commercial/cartoned pure juice here that is on the shelves in stores in the juice section called..POG. (passion,orange,guava) what a great tasting juice...very popular mostly enjoyed by children.....would probably make a nice fruit wine as well;)

Lilikoi is a great fruit wine as well. Better made in my opinion using a white grape base hinted with the flavoring of the passion fruit juice both in the front and end cycle.......getting thirsty here!
 

Stressbaby

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I forget to mention the the SG is down to 1.070 this afternoon. I began at 1.093 as I forgot to add the .03 for the temp difference. Fingers crossed! I'm hoping that because there is bubbling going on and the SG is reducing that I am on the right track?
Stressbaby, where do you get your strawberry guavas from? That sounds delicious! I recently ran across a passion fruit/lilikoi wine recipe and look forward to that as we have 3 varieties planted.
I have a greenhouse where I grow my tropicals. It IS a struggle in Missouri where currently the temp is 16F. :po
Strawberry guava as Joe says is great, but I'm pretty sure my buddies on the tropical fruit forum told me at one point that in Hawaii it is considered an invasive. It does produce at a young age from seed (esp compared to Jaboticaba).
 

mauijoe

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I have a greenhouse where I grow my tropicals. It IS a struggle in Missouri where currently the temp is 16F. :po
Strawberry guava as Joe says is great, but I'm pretty sure my buddies on the tropical fruit forum told me at one point that in Hawaii it is considered an invasive. It does produce at a young age from seed (esp compared to Jaboticaba).
You're right on the strawberry guava, it can be a problem thanks to the birds and their great distribution of seeds. But keeping the new up shoots back one good tree is all you need to keep stock in the freezer.

Wow! 16F ....that's why I'm here and not there.:h
 

Chirata

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My mom as was used to make a fabulous strawberry guava jelly with wild guavas growing around the vacant lots of Princeville on Kauai. Don't see to many any more, too may houses. I have a couple of table guavas, sweeter than a common guava and a lot bigger. Hmmm I like this idea....I usually make guava marmalade but there are so many I can't keep up...I see a guava wine in my future
I might be wanting to plant some strawberry guavas next.....
So joe on the lilikoi, you would start off with maybe a frozen concentrate white grape wine with some lilikoi juice then add more lilikoi to top off the carboys?

16F! Oh my! And you have tropicals! Do they have heaters?
 

manibd04

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Welcome to the forum.

Hey, get some 3's and several 1 gallon. As you rack and loose some of the wine in the bottom sediment, you can use the 1 gallon to top off the 3, then put whats left in 1.5 liter or 750 ml wine bottles.
Hi Robie,
I'm a real newbie to the point that I added two pkg of yeast instead of 1pkg to my 6gallon batch. Today, after 4 days, I still haven't notice any fermentation and I also noticed that the bucket lead wasn't seal well enough- I tried to seal this time but I think is defective-brand new kit.
The airlock display few bubles the first day but that was it.
Your input/feedback is appreciated.
Thank you- mani, VA
 

Chirata

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Your hydrometer will be your best friend in winemaking, with that said, go out and buy another one because when you break this one you will be in a panic to get another one!

I would snap the lid down and add an airlock, then let it ferment to dry in the primary (bucket). Dry would be below 1.000 on your hydrometer. Are you planning on having a dry wine or a sweet wine?
Oh dear Julie! You were so correct about the hydrometer. I had it on my list to purchase a second one when I pick up my granddaughter on Friday....but oooops my first one broke today....slippery little sucker....now I have to get 2!:)
 

mauijoe

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My mom as was used to make a fabulous strawberry guava jelly with wild guavas growing around the vacant lots of Princeville on Kauai. Don't see to many any more, too may houses. I have a couple of table guavas, sweeter than a common guava and a lot bigger. Hmmm I like this idea....I usually make guava marmalade but there are so many I can't keep up...I see a guava wine in my future
I might be wanting to plant some strawberry guavas next.....
So joe on the lilikoi, you would start off with maybe a frozen concentrate white grape wine with some lilikoi juice then add more lilikoi to top off the carboys?

16F! Oh my! And you have tropicals! Do they have heaters?
Like I had mentioned earlier on another subject, it is a good idea to experiment an always do a "one gallon" test first keeping accurate notes on what you do, what you added, test results, racking methods, etc. on a small scale. And you don't have to empty the entire package of yeast to do a small one gallon either. So, keeping that in mind you can use one frozen white grape base, add a little at a time of the lilikoi (passion fruit) juice after you add some water per the can instructions. Go taste your mix and see if there is a good hint of lilikoi flavor in there. One tbs. would probably be a good start. do the test, sugar up, test, treat, if you want more body in the wine when you melt your sugar you can add a very ripe banana and let that heat to disolve in with the sugar on the stove in a stainless steel pot. let cool, add to mix, test, SG..banana helps in many ways. When all is done, have some lilikoi juice (pasturized prior) to add your wine right before bottling, pending on your choice of flavor....dry, lightly sweetened, etc. Hope this helps.
 

Chirata

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Def helps Mauijoe! I like the idea of the very ripe banana as well. I've read about banana chips and wondered if I could use some of the dried apple bananas we grow, but if i can use it without drying it first that saves a step! And I'm all for that!
 

mauijoe

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If you're dedicating as few bananas for wine, we suggest that you set them aside and let them get extra ripe (not spoiling) like super sweet, black spots on the outer skin, etc. Don't use overly ripe bananas that one would discard and not eat. Peel them, freezer bag, place in freezer compartment for when ready to use. I feel if you use the dried form you'll be simmering them for quite awhile and you won't get the maximum self made sugars from one that did not have a long chance to max out.
Apple bananas last resort, kinda tart....Chinese, Williams the local trees are good for baking and wine as well!
 

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