Newbee Seeking Help on Acid

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Junior
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Hi - my name is Lori. I have a few successful wine kits under my belt so I understand the basics. I planted cayuga and vidal blanc grapes in my backyard just for fun. I thought maybe I would try my hand at making my own wine but never had enough grapes until this year. The clusters were coming along great and I put mesh bags on them to protect them prior to picking. Unfortunately 2 raccoon bandits made a mess of things, forcing me to pick sooner than I wanted.

I thought it would be helpful to provide a summary of what has occurred so far.

Please keep in mind I am learning as I go, if anything drinkable comes out of this effort I will be shocked.

I picked the grapes
I crushed the grapes - just like Lucy did, with my feet in a bucket :)
I added pectin enzyme
I pressed through a cheese cloth and got about 1 gallon of juice
I measured SG 1.046
I measured PH - 2.8 (using test strips)
I measured Acid (it took 8ml of solution to turn the juice pink) 8ml*.25 = 2.00 TA (Ummm that doesn't seem right)
I added 1/2 Camden Tab to "innoculate"
I research how much sugar to add based on SG and determined I needed to add 402 grams
I added the sugar
I measured SG again 1.076
I measured Acid again 7ml*.25 = 1.75 (Umm still questioning this)

I researched reducing acid and without having the necessary additives on hand to lower it I decided to just add water. Testing as I went I added 1/2 gallon of water to my gallon of juice but barely noticed a change in Acid or PH.

I decided what the heck this is just all about learning so I added the Yeast.
24 hours later and all is quiet

I thought hmmm could the juice have been so acidic the Yeast just died?
Could the yeast be no good?

I decided to see if I could lower the acid more so I added another 1/2 gallon of water
I measured PH - maybe a 3.0 now (
I measured Acid (5ml*.25) = 1.25

Since there was a change I decided to add another packet of yeast and now I wait.

I am perfectly fine with dumping this all in the woods and chalking it up to an education but I sure would appreciate anyones thoughts.

Thanks In Advance
Lori
 
It depends upon the strength of your NaOH solution as to the formula that you use. With my solution, when I have to add 8 ml to turn the juice purple, I'd multiply the 8 by 2, not .25, giving me a TA of 16 g/L, or 1.6%, twice what you want your TA to be. What is the strength of your NaOH solution?

Being prepared to deal with high or low pH, based upon what you are seeing in the vineyard before harvest is key. Having potassium bicarbonate on hand would have solved many of your issues.

Now, you have a wine that is watered down, you'll have to add sugar to get back to a reasonable starting point to produce a reasonable ABV. You don't want too much alcohol now, as the wine will be thin from watering, and it may have a really hard time getting started fermenting with pH that low, but you might luck out. I suggest you go through the process of winemaking, even if it doesn't come out as a top 10 award winning wine, the experience will serve you well for many years to come.
 
John - thanks very much for your response. I agree, having Potassium Bicarbonate on hand would have helped. I was ready with an Acid Blend to increase acid but was not prepared to decrease it. I also agree that I need to follow this through for the experience of it all. Regarding the strength of the NaOH, I do not know. The kit I am using is from BSGHandCraft and the instructions included say to multiple the ml used by .25.

So you think it is OK to move forward? If the second packet of yeast does nothing, try adding more sugar? Any other suggestions?
 
What yeast are you using? You don't mention time very much, other than deciding the yeast had failed after waiting only 24 hours. Did you add the yeast the same day as the Campden? You should wait at least 24 hours after Campden before pitching yeast. What is the temperature? Maybe bump it up? At 1.076 SG the problem is certainly not lack of sugar, although you didn't state your SG after adding water, so you should make sure your SG is where you want it. Possibly yeast energizer or nutrient? If it were mine, I think I would bring the SG back up to 1.075'ish, make sure the temp is in the upper range of the yeast you're using, and then address the pH. Some fermentations can take a few days to take off. Be patient, but get some potassium bicarbonate while you're waiting.
 
KCCam - thanks for your response and apologies for not providing more detail - I did wait 24 hours between the Campden and the Yeast which is Red Star Premier Cote des Blancs (described as a slow fermenter that works best between 50-80 degrees). The Temperature of the juice is 78. After adding water the SG is at 1.046. I did just add 1tsp of yeast nutrients. Per your suggestion I have added more sugar to raise the SG. I ordered Potassium Bicarbonate which will arrive Thursday (thank you Amazon). I didn't realize the yeast I chose was a "slow fermenter" so I will put on my patience hat. Thanks
 
first, welcome to WMT. There is a lot of learning on seeing it through.

Green grapes are a stress, but not impossible to ferment. Many ferment skeeter pee made with lemon juice, pH 2 and TA 5.0%, we assume that distilled water is transparent in pH and TA testing, and that tap water is close to transparent, ie adds volume which reduces TA by the percentage added and does not significantly change pH. Adding potassium bicarbonate removes the acid ions/ raises pH. Yeast dislikes pH below 3.0 which means it may stop early or be very slow. 78F is warm and would make the fermentation fast, white wines usually are below 68 or 70 to maintain fruity flavor.

I agree with John the wine will be thin, one fix for thin is to add frozen concentrated white grape juice. One 12 oz can mixes with 36 oz water so you would need two cans to get the solids up. You seem to be close to 1.5 gallon/ 5.6 liters. This leads to racking, possibly to a gallon and a half gallon glass jugs (or 1.5liter)
Lots of learning curve here, we have all gone through first batches.
 
Thanks Rice_Guy. I feel a little better knowing you can even ferment lemon juice with those ph and TA measurements! I will see what I can do to cool the juice a bit. I will add the potassium bicarbonate when it arrives and I like your suggestion of adding frozen concentrate. I actually have about 2 gallons of liquid now and I have the necessary jugs for racking when it comes to that. Agree its a learning curve but you have to start somewhere and here is where I start. :)
 
An update... I was unable to find frozen white grape juice concentrate anywhere so I couldn't add it. In addition the delivery of the potassium bicarbonate was delayed so I was unable to add that either. I was able to cool the juice to 72 degrees. SG is now at .998. TA at 1.075. I did purchase a PH meter to get a more accurate reading than the test sticks and it is 2.58. I am ready to rack into glass jugs but not sure if now is the time to add the potassium bicarbonate to address the high acid. Suggestions appreciated.
 
a lot of your pH/ TA reading now is due to CO2 in the wine! your pH reading is much lower than what you will see on the finished degassed product.
! ! do NOT make adjustments at this time in the process! ! Basically you are done fermenting at 0.998 and have look at finished taste from now on.
An update... I was unable to find frozen white grape juice concentrate anywhere so I couldn't add it. In addition the delivery of the potassium bicarbonate was delayed so I was unable to add that either. I was able to cool the juice to 72 degrees. SG is now at .998. TA at 1.075. I did purchase a PH meter to get a more accurate reading than the test sticks and it is 2.58. I am ready to rack into glass jugs but not sure if now is the time to add the potassium bicarbonate to address the high acid. Suggestions appreciated.
another thought; I am looking at harvest next weekend and you may have neighbors in a similar time line, ,,, you may be able to ask the local Craig’s list for a free gallon of must.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Rice_Guy. Regarding your "other thought" are you suggesting I get a free gallon of must to ADD to what I currently have or to ferment separately? If adding, I assume I would need to pitch more yeast?
 

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