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Bunky

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Yesterday we pressed some apples and I got a gallon of cider. I tried making hard cider a few years ago but it didn't turn out .. I didn't have a barometer and didn't add any sugar to the mix so it was very dry and not much flavor..

So I since bought a barometer and want to try this again. I have it sitting with a Camden tablet now.. I want to go the yeast method.

I'm kind of limited on yeast I only have a brewery near by for supplies (Bells). So what would be a good yeast ? Would like sweeter then drier.

Any other tips or suggestions would be appreciated.
 

sour_grapes

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Welcome back!

So, your mental image of the role of sugar and the eventual sweetness seems to me to be a bit off. Let me explain.

When you add sugar, you are increasing the eventual alcohol content. In general (for a home winemaker), all of the sugar that you add before fermentation will be converted to alcohol, and your cider or wine will be dry (meaning, no sugar left). It will not be sweet. You add as much sugar as you want in order to achieve a desired amount of alcohol (known as ABV).

To get a sweet final beverage, you must "backsweeten." This means that, after fermentation is finished, you "stabilize" the cider/wine by adding potassium metabisulfite (i.e., Campden tablet) and potasium sorbate. (Potassium sorbate prevents the yeast that are in your cider from multiplying.) Then you can add sugar to make it as sweet as you prefer, and that sugar will not be fermented into alcohol.

BTW, the tool to measure the specific gravity is called a "hydrometer," not barometer.
 

Bunky

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Thanks for the reply. Yes I was quick typing the post and obviously wasn't thinking correctly about the Hydrometer. LOL. And yes after you mentioning the bask sweetening this makes sense and jogs my memory..

Can the type of yeast you use effect the dryness of the the cider as well?

I'm going to use Cider house select..
 

winemaker81

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Can the type of yeast you use effect the dryness of the the cider as well?
Certainly. There are thousands of yeasts, and maybe 100 are used for beer and wine. Different strains have different alcohol tolerance, e.g., most beer yeasts can only tolerate 5-8% ABV (Alcohol By Volume) while wine yeasts may tolerate up to 18% ABV. You can search on the yeasts you are using to find what their individual tolerances are. Keep in mind that the posted tolerance is an average, so some batches might handle a bit more while others less.

One option is to use a low tolerance yeast and then feed it more sugar than it can handle. This works, but your product may not have the ABV you want, and it may not be the desired sweetness.

Most of us prefer to add sugar to achieve a certain ABV, stabilize, then sweeten to taste. This will produce a beverage more likely to be what you want.
 

Raptor99

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Most apple juice has enough sugar to reach 5-6% ABV, so you don't need to add any sugar unless you want more alcohol. As @winemaker81 said, the most reliable procedure is to ferment it dry and then stabilize and back sweeten. Freshly made cider is dry and a bit harsh. Adding some sugar will help to balance the flavor and bring out the apple flavor.
 

Bunky

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Ok so now I have an issue. I making a gallon so now I have put a Camden tablet in on Sunday evening. Planning on getting yeast today Tuesday.. well the order isn't coming and I really don't have any where close by to get my yeast how long can I wait before adding the yeast?
 

Rice_Guy

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There normally is yeast associated with the juice, the cider that I had in the fridge last year started by itself before I needed it to top off a carboy. ,,, ie you will be having a traditional fermentation start. The way fermentations run organisms which are stronger/ better at metabolizing take over the culture and dominate.
ALL fermentation’s start as a mixed culture!
Ok so now I have an issue. I making a gallon so now I have put a Camden tablet in on Sunday evening. Planning on getting yeast today Tuesday.. well the order isn't coming and I really don't have any where close by to get my yeast how long can I wait before adding the yeast?
Your way to stop a mixed fermentation/ early fermentation would be to freeze or to pasteurize the cider.
 

Tom914-6

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Hello, I am a newbie to this site but not to making cider. Absolutely add sugar to the fermentation to bump up the alcohol content. When you are ready to finish I like to put honey in the cider for a great taste. There are specific cider yeast that can add depth to your cider. Some will actually bring out a more apple taste. I used to just throw sugar in a barrel add unpasteurized cider and let it go but this year I am going to be a little more precise. I am making peach wine too and have absolutely no clue but want to learn. I love peach wine.
 

Bunky

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Well I was going to try cider house select but it hasn't arrived so now I will use 1118 or S-04. And yeast nutrient. I'm limited to what I can purchase today.. and yeast nutrient of course. What's the amount of nutrient to yeast ?
 

Tom914-6

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I am not going to use yeast nutrient yet? I have the cider house yeast and want to see what it taste like first. I used no yeast at all when I made it before. I have a good orchard that I get my cider from that has a great mix of apples they put into the cider. I would use the same ration of yeast nutrient for one gallon of wine.
 

winemaker81

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so now I will use 1118 or S-04
EC-1118 can go to 18% ABV, so unless you want wine that strong, you will want to stabilize then backsweeten.

What's the amount of nutrient to yeast ?
The packages I've purchased typically had dosage on the label. If yours doesn't, probably 1/2 to 1 tsp per gallon. I use Fermax and the dosage is 1 tsp/gallon.

I am not going to use yeast nutrient yet? I have the cider house yeast and want to see what it taste like first.
Nutrient will not affect the flavor -- it provides a better environment for yeast to thrive in. Some yeasts, when stressed, produce H2S, which is a very bad thing. Ensuing the yeast has sufficient nutrient is a good idea.
 

RolandD

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I am not going to use yeast nutrient yet? I have the cider house yeast and want to see what it taste like first. I used no yeast at all when I made it before. I have a good orchard that I get my cider from that has a great mix of apples they put into the cider. I would use the same ration of yeast nutrient for one gallon of wine.
I found that the Cider House Yeast produced a lot of sulfur in my cider, but that was before I started using nutrients. I've mainly used Lalvin D-47 and have begun to use Lalvin K1-V1116. It did great in a blueberry cider I just kegged.
 

Bunky

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I'm not real concerned about the ABV. I just want something that has some apple flavor to it with a little kick. My choices today for yeast are 1116,1118, S-04 and S-05.. which would be the best of these choices ?
 

Tom914-6

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EC-1118 can go to 18% ABV, so unless you want wine that strong, you will want to stabilize then backsweeten.


The packages I've purchased typically had dosage on the label. If yours doesn't, probably 1/2 to 1 tsp per gallon. I use Fermax and the dosage is 1 tsp/gallon.


Nutrient will not affect the flavor -- it provides a better environment for yeast to thrive in. Some yeasts, when stressed, produce H2S, which is a very bad thing. Ensuing the yeast has sufficient nutrient is a good idea.
Would you use it in hard cider too? I can, just never have.
 

Tom914-6

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I found that the Cider House Yeast produced a lot of sulfur in my cider, but that was before I started using nutrients. I've mainly used Lalvin D-47 and have begun to use Lalvin K1-V1116. It did great in a blueberry cider I just kegged.
Interesting, thanks.
 

Bunky

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It was my understanding from reading that the cider house select has the nutrients in the yeast. Maybe I misread something.
 

Rice_Guy

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I'm not real concerned about the ABV. I just want something that has some apple flavor to it with a little kick. My choices today for yeast are 1116,1118, S-04 and S-05.. which would be the best of these choices ?
You will maximize apple flavor by back sweetening with frozen 100% apple concentrate, along with a dose of potassium sorbate.
 

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