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WineXpert "New" instruction set

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wineh

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I recently made an Eclipse Forza kit that came with the "new" standardized instructions that supposedly all Global Vintners products are now coming with. I have to state that if I had chosen this kit as my very first (I've got about 150 under my belt, and in my belly) I would have certainly ruined it and probably never made another WinExpert kit. The most blatant errors?:
Top primary fermenter to 22.75l mark (really, 22.75l?),
line a 1 litre (4 cup) container with the muslin bag, add grapeskins and rinse out bag with 1 cup warm water, add it to the container (I don't know how I would get 2.25l of stuff in a 1l container.),
add the metabisulfate and sorbate directly to the wine (I know I read in several articles that meta does not mix well in wine, hence the "disolve in water" instruction)
I suppose 2 less rackings make it easier for the u-vints, but less racking also means more sediment, increasing the need to filter (I haven't filtered in years)
Step 4 has a wrong day number, even for a five week kit
I could go on but... anybody have a clean copy of the old eclipse instructions?
 

sour_grapes

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I certainly could scare up a set of older WE Eclipse instructions. Would you like me to mail them to you?
 

Doug’s wines

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I just started the the new Forza myself. I followed the instructions mostly (still in primary). My thinking on the 22.5 top off was to leave room for the liquid from the grape skin and bag rinse which was added after that step. Not sure how your instructions looked, but mine are identical to the link above.

Also the extended time in primary seems to be driven by current trends of extended maceration.
 

bstnh1

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Question: With the new 14 day primary fermentation, are you leaving your primary loosely covered the entire 14 days or are you snapping the lid down and putting it under an airlock somewhere during the 14 days?
 

Brian55

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Question: With the new 14 day primary fermentation, are you leaving your primary loosely covered the entire 14 days or are you snapping the lid down and putting it under an airlock somewhere during the 14 days?
Under airlock after fermentation slows down, usually around day 5.
 

pillswoj

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Not that I ever follow the instructions:db...... for Reds typically under airlock Day 5, Whites even sooner.
 

dyqik

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I recently made an Eclipse Forza kit that came with the "new" standardized instructions that supposedly all Global Vintners products are now coming with. I have to state that if I had chosen this kit as my very first (I've got about 150 under my belt, and in my belly) I would have certainly ruined it and probably never made another WinExpert kit.
I just did my first kit with these instructions. I think common sense and homebrewing experience has prevented me ruining it, but I'm not entirely sure.

The most blatant errors?:
Top primary fermenter to 22.75l mark (really, 22.75l?),
That's clearly just an over-precise conversion from 6 US Gal to litres (although 22.75 is just the decimal way of writing down 22 and 3/4, and I think most people would read it that way). I just used the 6 gal mark. I don't think this hurts, but it might cause worry (see Homebrewtalk's beginners forum full of "have I ruined my batch" threads)

line a 1 litre (4 cup) container with the muslin bag, add grapeskins and rinse out bag with 1 cup warm water, add it to the container (I don't know how I would get 2.25l of stuff in a 1l container.)
That one I spotted was clearly wrong when I read it - because I'd already looked at the grape skins bag. I used a 2 gal fermenting bucket.

add the metabisulfate and sorbate directly to the wine (I know I read in several articles that meta does not mix well in wine, hence the "disolve in water" instruction)
I followed this instruction as directed. No idea if it's a problem or not yet, I'm just into Step 3, bulk clearing, at 18 days or so.

I suppose 2 less rackings make it easier for the u-vints, but less racking also means more sediment, increasing the need to filter (I haven't filtered in years)
Step 4 has a wrong day number, even for a five week kit
Fortunately I haven't got this far yet. What's the right amount of time? I was going to leave it at least 14 days here, so to 29 days.
 

bstnh1

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Has anyone finished a kit with the new Winexpert instructions? I don't see how the very limited number of rackings will produce a wine clear enough for bottling. Even with the old instructions I always racked at least two more times after the wine was done to make sure all sediment had dropped out.
 

pillswoj

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At the risk of sounding like a broken record.....

These instruction were designed for the "brew your own" shops to minimize the number of steps. As a home winemaker you should develop a set of instructions / best practice for your own production.

For me:
Reds with skins:
EM primary in a fermonster - 12 weeks primary
Rack and add kmeta and clarifiers - 2 - 3 weeks
rack and Bulk age - 3 months - kmeta and Rack every 3 months.

cheaper red and white kits no skins:
Primary in pail - 7 days
secondary until fermnent is finished - 14 days
Rack add kmeta and clarifiers - 2 weeks
Filter and bottle

Good whites:
Primary until fermentation takes off - 24-48 hours
Rack to carboy and cold ferment 50F - 30 -40 Days (until Dry sg - 0.994)
Rack add kmeta and clarify 2 weeks
Filter and bottle

This has worked for me regardless of what the packaged instructions say. EM (extended maceration) is a recent mod based on threads in this forum.
 

wineh

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I certainly could scare up a set of older WE Eclipse instructions. Would you like me to mail them to you?
Thanks, I spent an hour and produced my own enhanced instructions set. I really just use them for reminders and for SG, temp, date and other detail recordings.
 

bstnh1

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I feel sorry for any newbie trying to make a WE kit with the new instructions. I've made lots of kits using the old instructions and all of them came out very clear and tasting very good. I've made three kits using the new instructions with the reduced number of rackings and have yet to get anything that resembles clear wine. I managed to clear up one of them with SuperKleer, but the other two are sitting in carboys looking like a foggy day in the mountains. I'm going back to the racking schedule in the old instructions. My only question is when do I dump in the finings - the old instructions say to put them in after secondary but before racking. The new instructions say after racking. Any suggestions?
 

Jon Hunwick

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As someone who works in one of the shops specializing in Winexpert, I have to completely agree. When they changed over the system, we took everything with a grain of salt and used them as a reference to change our old methods instead of redoing everything in the book. My main frustration has been with adding the new bentonite.

I find when adding it's best just to add it in the water, more or less throwing it in. It clumps too much otherwise. I make sure to have my water churning, and to avoid my mixing spoon when pouring. I know it's been a point of contention for our take-home customers. The 225ml of water or whatever the amount they suggest is bogus.

Oddly enough, I've found our wine clears way faster and better on the new system. That can be attributed to the keiselsol, of course.
 

bstnh1

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As someone who works in one of the shops specializing in Winexpert, I have to completely agree. When they changed over the system, we took everything with a grain of salt and used them as a reference to change our old methods instead of redoing everything in the book. My main frustration has been with adding the new bentonite.

I find when adding it's best just to add it in the water, more or less throwing it in. It clumps too much otherwise. I make sure to have my water churning, and to avoid my mixing spoon when pouring. I know it's been a point of contention for our take-home customers. The 225ml of water or whatever the amount they suggest is bogus.

Oddly enough, I've found our wine clears way faster and better on the new system. That can be attributed to the keiselsol, of course.
I've found that the easiest way to dissolve the bentonite is to whisk it into a 2 cup glass measuring cup full of boiling water. It mixes up into a thin slurry pretty easily. After destroying a Fermonster with hot water, I now add the bentonite slurry after I've dumped in the juice and before I top up with water. I use a Mixstir to mix everything up.
 

harmony

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I recently made an Eclipse Forza kit that came with the "new" standardized instructions that supposedly all Global Vintners products are now coming with. I have to state that if I had chosen this kit as my very first (I've got about 150 under my belt, and in my belly) I would have certainly ruined it and probably never made another WinExpert kit. The most blatant errors?:
Top primary fermenter to 22.75l mark (really, 22.75l?),
line a 1 litre (4 cup) container with the muslin bag, add grapeskins and rinse out bag with 1 cup warm water, add it to the container (I don't know how I would get 2.25l of stuff in a 1l container.),
add the metabisulfate and sorbate directly to the wine (I know I read in several articles that meta does not mix well in wine, hence the "disolve in water" instruction)
I suppose 2 less rackings make it easier for the u-vints, but less racking also means more sediment, increasing the need to filter (I haven't filtered in years)
Step 4 has a wrong day number, even for a five week kit
I could go on but... anybody have a clean copy of the old eclipse instructions?
We own Harmony Winery in Indiana. We make a lot of these Eclipse and Selections lots. We started having trouble with loss due to so much sediment when we filter, that we went back to the old steps. We added back the secondary transfer. I dont like leaving it sit on the Lee's that long. Also, we added back the second racking 15 days after stabilization. We dont have the luxury of doing multiple rankings for clearing. So we filter at 1.8 microns after the 8 week point. And bottle 3 days later. We have found a slight loss of parking. But we add 30grams more after transfer and on some, like the Lodi Cab, we add liquid Tannin from RJS to enhance the finish.
 

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