Mystery seedling/good surprise gift

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efBobby

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i noticed this growing in a pot with my red flame. Since red flame is a seedless variety it is most likely a native grape or possibly a native raspberry?

Hmmm.....based off what I am seeing. Dente teeth I'm thinking most likely vitis vulpina or possibly vitis cinerea.

Was really hoping for a riparia. It seems they are not around in my locale.

By distribution the most prevelant by far is muscadine following by vulpina(yuck) and a tie for third aestivalis and cinerea yes and yes!
Then followed by labrusca.

Nbd. I am certain I will encounter them soon enough. There are a couple trails I have cut that go to the banks of the appamattox.

I see many vines but can't identify now plus they don't have any smaller growth down low to take. Will have to wait for spring to get some green shoots.
 

treesaver

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Rob, it intrigues me, how you can actually figure out which variety it is. Do you have access to DNA testing, or is it just knowing the natives characteristics that you go by? I may actually learn something if I hang around long enough! lol
 

efBobby

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I have been working quite a bit with the natives here in va and some in Texas.

Certain species have what I nickname as "tells" or dominant but unique traits.

It's takes quite a bit of studying and field experience to filter through all the common traits and go for the unique ones.

This one had me studying for a while....is it aestivalis or palmata?

If you guessed palmata you'd be incorrect. The "tells" are in the tendrils and leaf stems(petioles). Palmata always have bright red tendrils and petioles.

Also the vine stem itself is only red on one side.

Virginia as far as I know is only second to Texas in regards to the number of species that grow in a particular state; however I feel it is more challenging here bc Texas has a lot of unique species whereas here there are many species variants.

I think we have all the cinerea variants and all but one or 2 aestivalis variants. So just narrowing it down to a single species isn't enough. For example the vine pictured below is actually Vitis Aestivalis var. bicolor or silverleaf grape. As evident by the leaf backs or bottoms in the second photo but when the plant was smaller the bottoms looks "felty" so initially I thought it to be an aestivalis-labrusca hybrid; however some grapes do not reveal their true identity immediately.

image.jpgimage.jpg


And some do. Even a novice can pick out a labrusca, a muscadine or a rupestris after seeing one in real life. Unfortunately the Internet is full of shit half the time and the stock photos posted aren't the correct ones for the particular species or variant you may be trying to find information on.

Here is one I suspect could be a palmata but will have to wait until it gets bigger(or it could be an aestivalis; if so it would not be like the one above it but perhaps aestivalis var aestivalis).image.jpg
 

efBobby

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Ps thanks for the compliment but there are still many species I could not accurately identify yet!

On the seedling, how I am able to narrow it down are the leaf margins/blades which are dente.

Edit: and it still could be a raspberry! ;)
 
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efBobby

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Need to get an updated pic but it's definitely a grape and I do see a little leaf cupping which can be aestivalis, mustang or labrusca.

Also I just rcd an order from edible landscaping yesterday. Got a couple roucanef and a hitch hiker.

Now this one will be a REAL challenge bc it may be a variety. Wouldn't it be ironic if it were a white cynthiana seedling?! lol

image.jpg
 

efBobby

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image.jpg Here is an updated pic of the seedling. Presently I'm leaning toward aestivalis but it's really hard to say this early but good practice/experience!(it's the lower one in the middle). It's definitely not a raspberry! lol.

I guess good things come in 3's I found yet another seedling in my propagation chamber!

image.jpg

Man I hope at least one of these is a mustang!
 
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