My first boil is fermenting

[jswordy]

My first boil is in the fermenter!



All extract, so I can mess up as little as possible the first time out.

1 - Cooper's English Bitter kit
500 mg - Amber DME
250 mg - Dark DME
1 lb - Honey

Boiled 2 gallons water, removed from heat, added Bitter kit malt.

Opened and added DME and honey into fermenter. Added 1 gallon previously boiled hot water, stirred to start dissolution.

Poured kit wort into sanitized fermenter. Stirred thoroughly.

Added:

1 oz - Cascade, 5 minute steep while stirring.

Chilled to 80 degrees F.

Pitched the kit yeast.

IG = 1.045; Potential alcohol = 5%

I've got a vigorous ferment going, plan to secondary for a week and then bottle, using 1 1/4 cup orange blossom honey as the carbonator (1.35 parts honey = 1 part sugar). Is that enough, or should I boost with 1/4 cup corn sugar, too?

I want to clear the beer further in secondary, but I know beer is way more prone to infection than wine.

If I secondary in a full sanitized carboy for a week, I'll be OK, right?

Smells good to me; wifey says it smells like chemicals. All I smell is citrus. Love Cascade!

 

[wineforfun]

So off my buddy goes into the beer world. Good luck and I look forward to your progress. On your own here, as I am not a beer drinker at all.

 

[jswordy]

So off my buddy goes into the beer world. Good luck and I look forward to your progress. On your own here, as I am not a beer drinker at all.

Nope, not going off into the beer world. I have bought zero equipment for beer; making my wine stuff do double duty. I am just curious about it.

Never fear! Before I started my boil last weekend, I bottled these!



I have 6 gallons of full-tilt, wild fermented blueberry out in my shed flocculating in the cold, as the wild yeast is not compact in lees. Very light and fluffy. Getting this to clear naturally has been a real challenge, but cold is your friend on this account, and it is working.

I'm going to call it "1 of 1," since I will never be able to duplicate it.

And I still have a fridge full of fruit ready to ferment.

 

[wineforfun]

Atta boy, I knew you wouldn't let me down.

 

[olusteebus]

Did you use a can of extract of coopers and added the dme and other stuff. Interested in knowing how it turns out. I made an oatmeal stout last month and it is kinda ageing in the bottle. It is good.

 

[jswordy]

Did you use a can of extract of coopers and added the dme and other stuff. Interested in knowing how it turns out. I made an oatmeal stout last month and it is kinda ageing in the bottle. It is good.

Yes, a modded Coopers English Bitter kit.

I really need to know the answers to my 2 questions at the bottom, if you know. Otherwise I will just use my best judgment.

 

[olusteebus]

I racked from primary to a secondary (carboy), primarily so that I could see if there was sediment to avoid. I would do that.

my supplier told me to condition in the bottles for one week for every point of AVV. So, if the abv is 5%, let it stay in bottle for 5 weeks before drinking. I know for the stout, I read that it really changes in a couple of months or more.

 

[jswordy]

Thanks. This kit says to open a bottle after 2 weeks to assess carbonation. Then allow it to carbonate 1 more week, then store in the cool to slow up and stop fermentation, compact the yeast. Improves through 3 months, they say. I'll see if any survive that long.

I expect the honey to offer a fuller mouthfeel and impart flavor, especially the carbonation honey. I am just a bit unsure on quantity to use. I know 1.35 cups honey = 1 cup powdered sugar. Will have to search the Net, I guess.

 

[BernardSmith]

Beer needs to be aged at least two weeks. So a week in the primary and one in the secondary is OK. You could let it stand another week in the secondary , IMO. The secondary does not need to be full to the top as most brewers today don't use a secondary unless they have a specific reason (adding fruit and so forth) and they might brew 5 gallons in a 6 gallon carboy. (I make single gallons in a 2 gallon bucket) When I carbonate my beers I add about 20 -25 gms of sugar/gallon.

The honey will obviously ferment dry: was that your plan? Sounds like an older recipe (adding fermentables to the DME rather than adding DME to the DME). Good luck.

 

[jswordy]

Beer needs to be aged at least two weeks. So a week in the primary and one in the secondary is OK. You could let it stand another week in the secondary , IMO. The secondary does not need to be full to the top as most brewers today don't use a secondary unless they have a specific reason (adding fruit and so forth) and they might brew 5 gallons in a 6 gallon carboy. (I make single gallons in a 2 gallon bucket) When I carbonate my beers I add about 20 -25 gms of sugar/gallon.

The honey will obviously ferment dry: was that your plan? Sounds like an older recipe (adding fermentables to the DME rather than adding DME to the DME). Good luck.

Thanks, Bernard. It's my recipe, but I am a little older.

I'm in a sealed brew bucket for the primary, just looking for glass on secondary to clarify. There are no grains involved, so it should be darned clear after primary if I got the cold break I intended. I wanted to make sure I wouldn't infect it on secondary. Bet a week there would do it.

The honey leaves behind flavors. Orange blossom is what I plan to use. But then, I might wimp out and just go 4 oz. corn sugar in 5 finished gals and be done. Depends on how it tastes post-ferment. Looks like 6.3 oz. honey is required to equal that amount of sugar, if I go that way, according to an online calculator I found. That's a lot less than I thought I'd need.

Yep, I have been instructed by Cooper's to open a bottle after 2 weeks to assess carbonation and if good, then put the rest in a cool place after 3 weeks has passed since bottling. Will do that, for sure. Will try hard to save 6 or so for longer storage. Crappier it tastes up front, easier that will be, know what I mean?

 

[BernardSmith]

Certainly don't claim to have any expertise in brewing but I see that you did not in fact boil the DME. I have made apple ale that way but I wonder if not boiling DME results in two possible problems: first, does it permit DMS that forms to remain in the wort. It is not clear to me whether DMS is a product only of mashed grains or will be found in DME or LME. Normally boiling the wort boils off the DMS. The second issue is about possible haze. It is not entirely clear to me whether DME needs a hot break to help remove proteins or whether the way that DME is produced means that proteins have already largely been removed. I believe that Mr Beer type recipes don't ask to boil the extract and I know that boiling extract causes darker beer than you might intend but I wonder whether whether boiling for say, 10 or 15 minutes may not be enough to remove protein and DMS...

 

[jswordy]

Certainly don't claim to have any expertise in brewing but I see that you did not in fact boil the DME. I have made apple ale that way but I wonder if not boiling DME results in two possible problems: first, does it permit DMS that forms to remain in the wort. It is not clear to me whether DMS is a product only of mashed grains or will be found in DME or LME. Normally boiling the wort boils off the DMS. The second issue is about possible haze. It is not entirely clear to me whether DME needs a hot break to help remove proteins or whether the way that DME is produced means that proteins have already largely been removed. I believe that Mr Beer type recipes don't ask to boil the extract and I know that boiling extract causes darker beer than you might intend but I wonder whether whether boiling for say, 10 or 15 minutes may not be enough to remove protein and DMS...

I dunno, Bernard, I just went with the Cooper's instructions but modified the recipe a bit. That way, I could use the small stock pots we have without having to do a true wort boil in a big pot I would have had to pay quite a bit for, just to try this out.

It's all extract on purpose, so I did not have to worry about being as anal as most of my beer-maker friends are (that's the best thing about making wine, too!). I did study for ~ 6 months online before trying the first one. I have seen a video by a guy who makes his with simple hot tap water (which the Cooper's instructions say is also allowable).

The way Cooper's gets the proteins, etc., out is to encourage you to put ice and cold water in the wort and hustle it down to 70-80 F. for a cold break. It took me about 5 minutes to cool it. If I did that right, it should have produced sediment that I'll find at the bottom of the bucket.

It smells absolutely great from the airlock, I have a great ferment, and we'll see in a couple more days.

Cooper's says to transfer and bottle right away, using their pills. I want to put it in secondary and then use a primer. A homebrew friend of mine told me last night that he'd recommend the honey as a primer. That's still up in the air right now. Honey is very difficult to incorporate evenly into the beer, even diluted in water. It could fail to ferment if too much falls out again as crystals during mixing.

I have that and also corn sugar on hand. I also have some SuperKleer, if need be.

 

[Boatboy24]

If you're priming with honey, you might want to check carbonation after a week. My first batch was WAY over carbonated after two weeks. I followed the instructions regarding how much exactly. Now, I test after a week. If they're good, into the fridge they go!

I subsequently read that using honey/agave, etc can add some variables since the sugar content may vary. And of course, storage temp during that carbonation phase may speed things up or slow them down.

 

[jswordy]

If you're priming with honey, you might want to check carbonation after a week. My first batch was WAY over carbonated after two weeks. I followed the instructions regarding how much exactly. Now, I test after a week. If they're good, into the fridge they go!

I subsequently read that using honey/agave, etc can add some variables since the sugar content may vary. And of course, storage temp during that carbonation phase may speed things up or slow them down.

Thank you, Jim. I am leaning more and more toward using corn sugar my first time out just to be safe. A learning curve. 4 oz. ought to prime to 2.2 or 2.3 carb and that would be just a bit fizzier than a draft bitter. I'll check at one week, and again at two weeks. Cooper's says three weeks is full carbonation, but if it's good I'll chill it down.

Planning to bottle carb at around 65 ambient air temp, then cool down once it hits "good." That work?

I have an old 1960s chest Coke cooler that I used to use to keep bottle beer in. It has the bottle racks in it, if you recall those type. I need to get the junk off the top of it and plug it in to see if still works. It would be perfect for shutting down the prime and keeping things cool. Hey, for $25 at an auction, what can I say?

Next up, I may try a Scottish ale knockoff recipe. If I could approximate Belhaven, I would be a happy man. If I could approximate Innis & Gunn (a much tougher target), I would be in heaven. Lots of online recipes for it, but none that have hit dead-on. If you have not tried I&G Canadian Cherrywood Aged, please do yourself a favor!

 

[BernardSmith]

I wonder whether the tabs in the kit are for priming - so rather than adding the priming sugar to the bottling bucket you add a tab or two (?) to each bottle.
Good luck with your beer.
Last year I was experimenting with meads and ciders. This year I am planning on doing some experimentation with beer and some berry wines. I like the idea of using wine yeasts to ferment the sugars from grains and I have obtained an enzyme that will help break down the longer molecules of sugar that wine yeast has trouble with to enable those yeasts to ferment dry those sugars. I guess I am looking to see what I can do with saison type ales (a kinda folk peasant beer) using the kinds of flavors that wine yeasts can help impart

 

[jswordy]

I wonder whether the tabs in the kit are for priming - so rather than adding the priming sugar to the bottling bucket you add a tab or two (?) to each bottle.
Good luck with your beer.
Last year I was experimenting with meads and ciders. This year I am planning on doing some experimentation with beer and some berry wines. I like the idea of using wine yeasts to ferment the sugars from grains and I have obtained an enzyme that will help break down the longer molecules of sugar that wine yeast has trouble with to enable those yeasts to ferment dry those sugars. I guess I am looking to see what I can do with saison type ales (a kinda folk peasant beer) using the kinds of flavors that wine yeasts can help impart

Yes, Bernard, Cooper's makes a priming tab - they are not included in the kit. Of course, they highly recommend you use those, 2 to a bottle!

I'm just doing this to see if I can do it, really. I have wondered about cross-use of yeasts, too - beer to make wine, etc. I like saisons.

But like I said, Innis & Gunn is the primo ale IMHO. I have tasted none better, anywhere. Very complex. Addictive. If I could even get reasonably close to that and save myself spending $3.50 per 11 ounce bottle, I would be very happy.

I'm playing around to see if my winemaker's nose and palette might actually work with beer recipes, too. Just something new to do. Craft beer is THE thing right now in the Huntsville, Ala., area - bar none. I used to see lots of CL ads for used home brewing equipment. Hardly ever see it listed anymore. Demand is high!

If I have a couple small successes, then I will invest in a kettle.

Thanks for the help - I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[BernardSmith]

Not that you are asking but I make single gallon batches and use a 3 gallon stockpot as my brew kettle. I don't have the beer making toys like the big boys but I find I can use the same kind of bags I use for making fruit wines to mash my grains - set my oven on the lowest setting, get to 170 and turn it off, add the grains in the bag, sparge in the bag over a colander and boil the mash on top of the cooker. A gallon of wort may take about 2.5 - 3 lbs of grain. For mashing you might want about 2 qts of water for every lb of grain and for boiling you want perhaps about 2 gallons of liquid (an hour's boil will evaporate off about a gallon). But apologies if, as they say, I am teaching my grandmother how to suck eggs (why "they" say that I have no idea, but "they" do). With micro batches I am happy to experiment and I can brew indoors and in my kitchen and still do some work in the evening

 

[botigol]

No need for the secondary; you can just leave the beer in primary for 2-4 weeks. Check that it is done using your hydrometer, just like wine. More than likely, it will finish in less than one week, but the yeast need time to absorb some fermentation byproducts. As a general statement, beer makers are paranoid about infection. PARANOID I say; and will say to skip secondary for this reason. I just find it easier to leave it in one vessel for the duration. Since your plan is to secondary for only a week, there isn't much, if any, benefit, so I would stick with the primary.

Three weeks at 70F is the generally accepted set of conditions for carbonation. A cooler temperature will prolong the process, but by how much is a complete guess. I have had some that seemed fully carbed in a shorter time, but noticed that there was an underlying sweetness in some of the early drinkers that went away, so it seems like priming sugar that had not finished fermenting. My experience is that using honey as the priming agent takes longer than corn sugar or apple juice.

I use the calculator in the following link for priming solution. For the Current Temperature entry, use the highest post-fermentation temperature that the beer experienced:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/

I will suggest giving it a full three weeks to carbonate, leave a bottle in the frig for at least 24 hours (three days would be better) and then open to check it. If it tastes good and is carbed, you are good to go!

 

[Elmer]

Funny I was just looking at beer kits last night. I was pricing cream ale or IPAs.
I intend to make a batch next week and give it a shot, but the idea of priming flusters me.
I have seen the tab and they seem to be elmer-proof (IE: idiot proof).

best of luck with the brew!

 

[BernardSmith]

Hi Elmer. Priming is really very simple. Basically, you dissolve about 20 -25 g (or about an ounce) of sugar per gallon (or whatever the instructions suggest) to be primed in a small quantity of water. I boil this in my microwave for about 1 minute and add this to the bottling bucket. You then rack the beer into the bucket and gently mix the sweetener and the beer. You then bottle. At about 10 beer bottles / gallon you have primed each bottle with about 2 g of sugar. Since the yeast is still active it will ferment that sugar but since you have capped the bottles the CO2 that is produced has no where to go except in the liquid (and the inch or so of head room in each bottle)... After a couple of weeks that CO2 is nicely dissolved in the beer and when you pour it because of the proteins in the beer (I think that is the reason) it forms a head. You add too much sugar and the beer is all head. You add to little and you have no head.