My 1st Go at Wine and RC 212

Discussion in 'Yeast, Additives & Wine Making Science' started by FunkedOut, Apr 29, 2019.

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  1. Sep 2, 2019 #61

    Chuck E

    Chuck E

    Chuck E

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    I think you might try "bench testing" your wine. What do you object to the most? Figure that out and work to alleviate that single issue.

    Let's say it's the "sourness." You might try sweetening the wine with some simple sugar syrup (2 parts sugar/1 part water, simmered & cooled). Set up three or four glasses with 1 ounce of your wine. Put measured amounts of the syrup in the glasses, stir & taste. You can start out with a dropper, and do 2 drops in the first glass, 4 drops in the second glass and so forth. Sometimes a little sweetness can bring back the grape flavor. You just don't want to overdo it.

    More astringency can be had with tannin additions. Again, don't overdo it.

    I gain mouthfeel with the addition of glycerin, which also helps with the apparent sweetness. In my view, a little bit goes a long way.

    Oak is a style choice. I oak some and leave it out of others. If you read the winemaker's notes on the commercial Malbec you like, you may find out if they used oak barrels or not. Use this knowledge to tailor your batch.
     
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  2. Sep 2, 2019 #62

    FunkedOut

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    Thank you, sir.
    I’ve got some glycerin on the way to play with as well.

    The sourness is not bad. The issue is that it seems to be all that is there until the alcohol taste.
    I think that I’ll start with a little glycerin to increase the mouthfeel.
    Maybe the added sweetness is all that is needed to bring the fruit back?
    Do I need to stabilize with K-sorbate if all I am going to add is glycerin?

    Bench trials sound like great fun!
     
  3. Sep 2, 2019 #63

    Chuck E

    Chuck E

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    One thing I have found with the alcohol taste is, if you let the wine breathe it mitigates the booziness. Like, let it breathe for an hour or more.
    If you are going to age in the carboy for a few months, I would wait on the sorbate until you are near bottling time.
    After my bench trials, I landed on two drops of glycerin per ounce. Which I equate to 30 drops per mL, about 8mL per gallon. Don't overdo it.
    Since our brains equate fruitiness with sweet; in my taste buds, a little residual sweetness brings out the fruit for me.
     
  4. Sep 3, 2019 #64

    FunkedOut

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    I’ll be skipping the sorbate all together.
    Some quick research led to the fact that yeast cannot metabolize glycerin.
     
  5. Sep 4, 2019 #65

    FunkedOut

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    Found this great document discussing glycerol production by yeast:
    https://www.lallemandwine.com/wp-co...-Expert-120321-WE-Glycerol-and-WInemaking.pdf

    Seems my yeast selection (RC212) is a one of the lowest producers of glycerol.
    EC1118 that came with the kit, is a fairly high producer.
    Also says that bumping up fermentation temps will increase glycerol production, everything else held constant.

    Per the chart in that document, EC1118 would’ve produced almost 8g/L of glycerol, while the RC212 only produced ~6.5g/L, leaving the wine between 2g/L and 2.5g/L short.
    I’ll be sure to taste that much addition on the bench trials.

    That works out to 1.2oz - 1.5oz of glycerin added to the 6 gallon kit.
    (or 0.20oz - 0.25oz per gallon)
    (or ~1.5tsp per gallon)
    On the very low end of the recommended ranges.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
  6. Sep 5, 2019 #66

    FunkedOut

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    Super Smoother is a product that contains 15mL of liquid oak and 15mL of glycerin.
    15mL is 3 tsp.
    That is intended for all 6 gallons.
    That is half of what I calculated above.

    Just want to ask the brain trust here again,
    Is thin and watery a normal experience in a young wine?
    Is it something that will change with age?
     
  7. Sep 5, 2019 #67

    Chuck E

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    As I recall, you started out with grape juice & skins and you had to dilute it to get your SG in range. That is what contributed to your result now.
    Mouth feel really comes from the grape skins. When you ferment crushed red grapes the skins give up a lot of what makes wine great during the pressing operation. When you crush & press white grapes you get those "mouth feel" compounds right at the beginning.
    What you start out with makes a big difference in what you end up with. The flavors will meld with age. The body, not so much.
     
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  8. Sep 5, 2019 #68

    FunkedOut

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    This is a wine kit that came with skins.
    The water I added was exactly the amount directed by the instructions.
    My only deviations from the kit instructions are:
    • RC212 in place of EC1118
    • Skipped the K-sorbate
    • Bulk aging instead of bottling right away
    I did rack off the skins after only 5 days, because the SG was down to 1.024 and only a 2 hours away from 1.020.
    Kit instructions said to rack off at 1.020.
    Perhaps some longer contact with the skins would've been better.
    I bought a fermonster for my second kit and executing an 8 week extended maceration.
    I am hoping for better results there.

    Thanks for the dialog and insight.
     
  9. Sep 11, 2019 at 4:46 AM #69

    FunkedOut

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    A gallon of glycerin came in the mail today.
    I made up 4 samples to taste for a bench trial:
    • Nothing added
    • 0.5oz per gallon
    • 1.0oz per gallon
    • 1.5oz per gallon
    The sample with nothing added, taste experience was (over the course of a few seconds) water-nothing-sour-astringent. The booze is gone. The astringency is very pleasant, although more would be good. The water-nothing-sour portion is not enjoyable.

    None of the other samples had that quality. They all came out of the gate with fruit! They all ended with the same astringency.
    The difference between the three was in the middle of the taste experience.
    The 0.5oz per gallon sample was a touch sour.
    The 1.5oz per gallon sample was a touch sweet.
    The 1.0oz per gallon sample was Goldilocks, just right.
    Quite an improvement.

    I mixed up a 6oz sample with this dosing rate to confirm and enjoyed every bit of it.
    Added 6oz to the carboy and spun it up with the degassing tool to get it mixed up well.

    Thank you guys once again for helping me enjoy this process and end up with an enjoyable wine!

    I might try some bench trials with a bit of tannin powder next.
    Either way, this one will sit in the carboy at least another 3 months.
     
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  10. Sep 11, 2019 at 4:34 PM #70

    Chuck E

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    Happy to assist you.
     
  11. Sep 12, 2019 at 5:21 AM #71

    FunkedOut

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    Another round of bench trials tonight. This time tannin complex was the variable.
    Decided that 15g/hL was the right move.

    This kit is already way better than that store bought Malbec that I was enjoying!
    I'll be curious to see what 3 months does to it now that the tannin has been added and stirred up.


    I'll add this bit here...
    I tasted a touch of tannin complex dry, all by itself.
    Did the same with tannin riche extra.
    The complex is like sawdust and bitter chocolate powder.
    The riche extra is like sawdust, oak and vanilla; almost sweet.
    I might add some of the riche extra in 3 months after racking.

    So far, bench trials is the best part of making wine!
    Can't wait until I get to the drinking part!!
     
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