Muscadine wine

[Sacalait]

I only use cane sugar, I'm used to it and I can depend on the end results.

I've used beer bottles in the past, the Groelsh bottles work especially well.

I degas because that hurries the process along...patience is not one of my virtues.

 

[dloftus]

I took a couple of photos this weekend to show the bubbles and the lees. As can be seen, it is still going, and, the other carboy (which had ceased all activity) is now bubbling about the same as this photo. The two images were taken 11 days after the wine was racked. Here is the link:

http://www.pbase.com/dloftus/muscadine_wine_making

 

[Sacalait]

It looks like you've got an active ferment, have you checked the SG lately?

 

[Wade E]

Looking god there!

 

[dloftus]

Sacalait, The last time I checked the SG was when I racked it almost two weeks ago. It was 0.994 so I don't think it has gone much lower. The fermentation has been slow but steady and one of the bubbler valves (the orange one in the photos) doesn't even bubble, the other only occasionally. I'm just waiting for it to quit. It will be two weeks tomorrow (Tuesday 12/30/08) and that is probably not too long to be on the lees. I just checked it now, and it's still going, just like the energizer wine bunny.

 

[Sacalait]

At .994 it is likely finished and is just giving off CO2. At this point it's just a waiting game, you can sit and watch it or rack and degas it but be sure to keep it topped up.

 

[dloftus]

I checked the specific gravity last night and it was .993 or .992 so I figured it was time to rack the wine. I think Sacalait was right that the wine was out gassing and not really fermenting. I added the oak chips (soaked them in Campden for a few minutes) and, I have to say, they had a really nice smell. I think it should help give the wine a more mellow flavor. The wine is also clearing very nicely and has a good red/blue color. I will leave the wine on the oak chips for about three or four weeks and then rack again. A taste sample shows the wine is not as harsh, has no off flavors and is not overly alcoholic. So far, everything is looking good.

 

[Sacalait]

I've never oaked muscadine so I'm curious about your results.

I'm ready to rack a 3gal batch of muscadine and plan to charge it as you would beer then bottle in Grolsh bottles.

 

[dloftus]

Sacalait,
As for the oak, I only used about a cup per 5 gal. because I didn't want to overwhelm the natural wine flavor, only a hint of flavor that would add a nice touch to the overall finish of the wine. I can't wait to see how it turn out.

I talked to my wife last night about doing the same thing to some of our wine, putting it beer bottles with a bit of sugar (a cup per 5 gal. is the rate I use for beer) to make a sparkling wine. I was also going to do a few bottles as a dry wine (one of my son's likes dry wine) and then do some where I sweeten back after using sorbate because I like a semi sweet wine. That will give me several different outcomes for the same batch which is really cool.

 

[Sacalait]

Sweetening back to an SG of 1.001-1.005 will greatly enhance the flavor of the muscadine and that's what I'm looking for.
As for the sparkling part I figure if I don't like the outcome I can always dump the contents and go in a different direction.

 

[dloftus]

Oak Chips

I posted a couple of photos of the roasted oak chips in the wine to my photo web site. I thought I had the same amount in each carboy when I was putting the chips in, but I missed by a bit. If there is a real difference, I can always combine the two batches when it is time to bottle.

After racking there were still bubbles coming up and you can see them in among the wood chips in the close up photo. I did stir the wine a bit trying to get rig of the excess CO2 during the transfer, but I may not have been vigorous enough (trying not to get too much oxygen in the wine), so it is still outgassing.

The wine will now sit for about 3 or 4 weeks and then I'll rack again to remove the oak chips and any lees. I think one more rest period after that, to aid in clearing, and it will be time to bottle. I don't think I'm going to run it through a filter, since I don't own one, and will see how this batch works out. I can get a filter for the next batch if I think I need one.

http://www.pbase.com/dloftus/muscadine_wine_making

 

[dloftus]

It has been a while since I've posted anything, but the wine has just been soaking in the oak chips so there has not been much to write about.

Tonight I decided to rack off the lees and oak chips but was surprised to find small bubbles still coming up. I guess the wine continues to outgas and this may be the reason the wine is not clearing very fast. What is the best way to degas the wine? I transfer using a clean, food quality, plastic bucket so I can clean the glass carboy and then put the wine back in the.

Should I add one Campden tablet per gallon during this transfer (five per carboy)? Should I use any finings yet? One person told me that can also affect the flavor in a negative way. He said the finings can drop out some of the flavor along with the the suspended particles. Any thoughts?

Oh, one thing that surprised me, all the oak chips sunk. I would have thought, being wood, they would float the whole time. But after about five days, almost all of them were on the bottom of the carboy.

 

[Wade E]

Being small pcs of wood they will soak all the way through and when they do they will drop as they will not have air in them any more to keep them buoyant. I use fining agents when a wine wont clear on its own and some may strip a little flavor but have never noticed the difference using SuperKleer or Chitosan or Bentonite and I have done side by side comparisons. Maybe with some computerized analyzing equipment it could be detected but I dont think a person could pick out the fined wine from a naturally cleared wine n a blind comparison myself. As for campden tablets its 1 tablet per gallon. degassing can be done with a big spoon and some serious elbow grease, a drill mounted stirrer, or a vacuum device.

 

[Sacalait]

As Wade said 1 camden tblt per gallon or, as I use, 1/4 tsp K-meta /5gals. (no crushing and it readily dissolves). White oak, which is what you're using, will sink once saturated. Down here in the south white oak is used to make cat fish slat traps (it sinks), a no brainer, Seems that here in the south is where fundamental common sense abounds.

 

[Wade E]

Dont forget that white oak is also used for boats so its not a no brainer.

 

[dloftus]

Questions about bottling

I racked the wine several weeks ago, to get it off the oak chips and lees and let it clear. I racked one 5 gal carboy last night (still have one to do) so I could bottle it. On this forum someone mentioned that Campden tables (one per gallon) should be added to stabilize the wine while it ages. So I did that and then started bottling. I put some in three liter jugs, some in 750ml bottles and some in beer bottles. The beer bottles where mixed so that 12 were bottled straight and for the other 12, I added two oz. of sugar (to five quarts wine) to make a sparkling wine. Of course, during the process, the capper broke and I had to buy another one this afternoon. As I finished up bottling the wine I did sample some of it and the taste was bad. I attribute this to the Campden and I have heard the wine will get much better with age. I sure hope so. I also noticed that the wine is starting to look pale and a bit brownish. I understand the Campden can bleach the color out of the wine, is this true?

While at the store today, the storeowner agreed that the poor taste is probably from the Camden. He also said I need to put the wine back in the carboy and let it set for about three days to let the Campden air out of the wine. He says it won’t come out if keep in the bottle with the caps and corks in place. Also, the Campden killed the yeast and it won’t grow on the sugar I added. So, no sparkling wine. But I’m not so sure. So here are my questions:

1. Will the Campden stay in the wine with the cork and caps on? Do I need to put all the wine back in the carboy and let it air out for several days?

2. Did the Campden kill the yeast or is there still hope for the sparkling wine?

3. How much does the Campden effect the color? I notice the wine getting more pale and starting to look a little brownish after the Campden was added this time. That makes about five times I’ve added Campden. Is that too much?

When I racked the wine several weeks ago, I sampled some then and it tasted great. The next batch will not have Campden put in it and I will just have to drink it faster. It’s a nasty job, but someone has to do it.

 

[Wade E]

If youve added campden tablets 5 times then you have probably over sulfited your wine unless your wine has about 1 1/2 years on it since you started it. You first add some when starting the wine to kill off any wild yeast, then you add another tablet per gallon when its done fermenting tp prevent your wine from oxidizing. After that you really should check your SO2 levels with a SO2 kit but you could just do the 3-4 month method which is fairly close to when its needed. As far as the campden killing off your yeast it sounds like you have to much sulfite in there for a fermentation to start again.

 

[dloftus]

Wade,

If I put all the wine back in the carboy, let it set for another four months and then rebottle it, would that help? Is there any way to get the SO2 out faster?

 

[Wade E]

Spalsh racking will rid your wine of a lot of S02, dont be gentle with it to do so.

 

[dloftus]

I did find an article on line that mentions the same thing, aerating the wine to get rid of the SO2. I have also ordered a test kit so I can get a better idea of where my levels are. It looks like the batch is salvageable. I'm happy about that! Wade, thanks very much for the input.

Here is the article in case any one else would like to read it:

Solving the Sulfite Puzzle, by Daniel Pambianchi
http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=889