MM Sonoma Edition Yakima Valley Syrah

[terroirdejeroir]

The Sonoma Edition will be my first attempt to make a grape wine that hasn’t already been “pre-engineered”. According to George’s web page the pails have “been balanced for sugar, acid, and pH” so I am assuming I don’t need to adjust those parameters, just take a hydrometer reading and let it ferment. I think I understand how to properly sulfite, fine, degas etc., but I have questions on two topics: oaking and MLF.

I don’t really have any knowledge of what type(s) of oak would be best to use with this juice and how best to apply the oak. I generally like more of a peppery sort of flavor, so I think I would probably want to do a medium toast plus, but that is just a guess. From the descriptions in the oak thread it seems like Hungarian would be a good fit. Do I need to apply oak during primary fermentation or can I just do it during bulk aging? Do I need to do both? I have enough three-gallon carboys that I could split the batch and try two different oaks. Seems like that would be a good learning opportunity.

I don’t know whether I should attempt MLF as I have seen conflicting information on that. One of the forum threads said not to attempt MLF on any juice that has been acid balanced. A subsequent commenter stated that MM said the Sonoma edition was just pure juice that hadn’t been modified except for the addition of yeast. If I do need to do MLF I would appreciate any wisdom on how best to do that. Some sources I have seen suggest to do it concurrently and some say to do it as soon as primary fermentation is complete.

I would really appreciate some guidance on this from someone with prior experience on this product. Even better, I would love to correspond with someone who is ordering the same bucket and has a clear idea of what they plan to do.

 

[mmadmikes1]

I have never done a pail but I make Yakima valley Syrah every year. First off, I MLF almost every time.This years grapes need acid added. I cant see how it would hurt do MLF but MLF removes acid, and if the acid has already been balanced . in doing so you made need to add it back in after words, and that seems redundant. The first 2 years of all my batchs taste so bad If that was the finish I would pour it out. Be patient and allow the wine to age properly or you will feel you wasted your money. I have never oaked Syrah so in that regards I have no good advise.

 

[ibglowin]

Syrah usually has a pepper note to it. I would use French Oak Cubes myself either Med or Med+, add the oak in during bulk aging. I would check the label when you get the bucket to see if there is any mention of grape concentrate. If there is you may need to use fining agents like bentonite up front and Super Kleer at the end. I would definitely MLF. That means you have to keep it warm post fermentation (65-70) for an extra month and you can't add any sulfite until MLF is complete.

Also this is only 5 gallons of must plus 9lbs of crushed destemmed grapes so your either going to have to top up a lot if you only have 6G carboys or rack down to a 5G carboy.

This sounds like a really nice product. Keep us posted on how it progresses!

 

[terroirdejeroir]

Regarding MLF, post fermentation or concurrent?

 

[ibglowin]

Always post.

 

[ldmack3]

I've got a Sonoma on order and ask George about MLF since in the notes you are supposed to read mentioned it. He immediately replied he does not recommend MLF with the Sonoma.

Now I'm really confused.

 

[ibglowin]

I would ask him why.....

If this is not fresh grape must (as is implied I think) but rather a reconstituted from concentrate product meaning its basically "fancy kit juice" your not supposed to do MLF on kits as they have higher than normal amounts of malic acid (for some reason we are told) and would thus produce a flabby wine (lower than normal acid) if MLF'd.

 

[terroirdejeroir]

I spoke with MM this morning and they told me the product is fresh juice that has been acid and pH balanced and they have added 60ppm sulfite. The gent I spoke with said there is no reason not to do MLF, but to make sure a sulfite resistant bacteria is used.

If there is a lot of malic acid and MLF results in a flabby wine is there any reason why you can't just adjust with tartaric acid? Sorry if this is a newbie question...

 

[ibglowin]

The whole point of a kit wine is to make it bullet proof and easy for the average Joe. Messing with MLF and acid adjustments defeats the whole point of making a kit wine but yes, in theory you could acid balance the wine back but if your going to do that much work you might as well just make wine from fresh grapes.

 

[Bartman]

Having had this conversation with George before, I think George's rationale is that the juice included with Mosti's Sonoma Edition (along with the Chile Fresco) is not high in acid, partly because it is not from a cool-weather source. Consequently, with lower/normal acid levels, there is no need to go through the extra work of MLF, because the benefits will be limited at best. And it gives the novice winemaker ample opportunity to damage or ruin an otherwise great, pre-balanced wine (botched MLF, oxidation, infection with other microbes, etc.).

 

[ldmack3]

Having listened to all of this I think I'm going to skip the Malo on the Sonoma. Seems to skip if balanced and to do it if fresh unbalanced. Otherwise you're taking it out then adding it back in.
Gotta keep it simple or I'll have to pull that 3 brain cell out of reserve.

 

[terroirdejeroir]

I agree, just wanted to be sure because I have never done this before and don't want to have a problem down the road. Since I plan to store this wine at 57 degrees I guess it won't really matter anyway unless I give some away and it is stored at room temperature.

 

[Rock]

Who the heck is George?

 

[mmadmikes1]

How can these grapes be sourced in Chile and be called Yakima Valley? Yakima had a long hot summer all the way into Oct this year. Acid was low. I added acid this year to Prosser grapes.

 

[ibglowin]

He is the owner of Finevinewines where the frozen pail was purchased.

Who the heck is George?

 

[terroirdejeroir]

Good to know. I was getting concerned as I was checking out some frozen juice from Columbia Valley and the Syrah was .85 TA. BTW, I think the product from Chile is called Chile Fresco, not Sonoma Edition.

 

[ibglowin]

These are not from Chile, they are from WA state or Sonoma CA depending on the pail. Mosti Mondial also makes a frozen pail from Chile (Chile Fresco)

How can these grapes be sourced in Chile and be called Yakima Valley? Yakima had a long hot summer all the way into Oct this year. Acid was low. I added acid this year to Prosser grapes.

 

[ldmack3]

Chili Fresco will be available in April. IF the Sonoma looks like it is working out I want to try some.

 

[Bartman]

I've enjoyed the Chile Fresco - I have made one bucket three years in a row. I just bottled and labeled my Chile Fresco Carmenere from this past May. I have posted elsewhere that MM's Chile Fresco is probably the simplest winemaking there is (pre-balanced, pre-inoculated - just defrost and let her rip!), and some of the highest quality too.

 

[ldmack3]

Good to know.
Thanks Bart