Quantcast

MLF

Wine Making Talk

Help Support Wine Making Talk:

cuz

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
181
Reaction score
14
I pitched a sangiovese juice 3 months ago (11/19) I co-inoculated with white labs wlp675. I used actimalo, optimalo and fermaid K. I have had it in 70-75 degrees for about 3 months. The accuvin strip test read not there yet.

I did not rack at all yet. If I start racking will it effect the MLF? I remember reading a post about not leaving the lees sit too long but I was waiting for the MLF to complete before I did my fist rack.

Rack it or leave it?
 

Johnd

Senior Member
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
6,700
Reaction score
6,693
Location
South Louisiana
Whether juice or must, and whether or not you coinoculation, best practice is to get off of the gross lees a few days (2 - 3) after completion of AF. As for why your MLF would still not be complete, I cannot say, but have read here and elsewhere of troubles with your chosen MLB.
 

mainshipfred

Junior Member
WMT Supporter
Joined
Feb 25, 2017
Messages
4,056
Reaction score
2,746
Location
Centerville, Northern Virginia
I pitched a sangiovese juice 3 months ago (11/19) I co-inoculated with white labs wlp675. I used actimalo, optimalo and fermaid K. I have had it in 70-75 degrees for about 3 months. The accuvin strip test read not there yet.

I did not rack at all yet. If I start racking will it effect the MLF? I remember reading a post about not leaving the lees sit too long but I was waiting for the MLF to complete before I did my fist rack.

Rack it or leave it?
I've never had any luck with the 675 in 4 or 5 tries when I first started. I think my issue could have been SO2 since it need to be below 10mg/L for the bactria to survive. Since some yeasts produce SO2 during fermentation it could be possible you exceeded this amount.
 

cuz

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
181
Reaction score
14
I used 675 twice before and it worked like a charm. I have to check what yeast I used this time. So what is the consequence if the MLB doesn't ferment as it should. I feel like I just added bacteria to my wine and it didn't die and I added a bunch of nutrients that were used.

Is it only the taste that may be effected or can the bacteria be bad for your health?

Will the K-meta kill the bacteria?

If not can the MLF still take place after bottling?
 

Stressbaby

Just a Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Messages
2,078
Reaction score
830
No health risks. The risk is MLF in the bottle. And taste.

I've also read stuff online about wlp675 not finishing. I bought some for my first MLF a few years ago, chickened out and never used it; switched to VP41 which has worked great for me.
 

cuz

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
181
Reaction score
14
Ok - I have two concerns and one question regarding bottling

Concern 1: I have done an MLF and backswetened some reds. So I read do not use sorabte in this scenario.

Concern 2: I have 6 gallons that the MLB did not ferment. I read on some post that lysosomes should be added to this.

The question is will K-meta address both concerns. Prevent fermentation in my backsweetened wine and prevent MLF from happening in the bottle.
 

Johnd

Senior Member
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
6,700
Reaction score
6,693
Location
South Louisiana
Ok - I have two concerns and one question regarding bottling

Concern 1: I have done an MLF and backswetened some reds. So I read do not use sorabte in this scenario.

Concern 2: I have 6 gallons that the MLB did not ferment. I read on some post that lysosomes should be added to this.

The question is will K-meta address both concerns. Prevent fermentation in my backsweetened wine and prevent MLF from happening in the bottle.
Concern 1 : No, KMeta will not prevent fermentation from restarting. Your best bet, at this point in time, is sterile filtration, that is, filtering the wine will .45 micron filter media or smaller. This will remove the
yeast from the wine, thereby preventing renewed fermentation.

Concern 2 : Lysozyme is a good option in this scenario and is available from many online sources. High levels of kmeta will certainly stifle the activity of MLB, and you may never get it to restart even if you want it to. I have two wines that never completed MLF, they were eventually sulfited and bottled (some 3 years ago) and have not had any problems. YMMV
 
  • Like
Reactions: cuz

cuz

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
181
Reaction score
14
Concern 1 : No, KMeta will not prevent fermentation from restarting. Your best bet, at this point in time, is sterile filtration, that is, filtering the wine will .45 micron filter media or smaller. This will remove the
yeast from the wine, thereby preventing renewed fermentation.

Concern 2 : Lysozyme is a good option in this scenario and is available from many online sources. High levels of kmeta will certainly stifle the activity of MLB, and you may never get it to restart even if you want it to. I have two wines that never completed MLF, they were eventually sulfited and bottled (some 3 years ago) and have not had any problems. YMMV
Thanks Johnd

I do filter but not with a .45 micron. I'm going to try it. Not sure if my small vacuum pump will pull the wine through.

I read that if you use Lysozyme you can decrease your sulfites. However I can't seem to find a formula. If I usually add 1/4 teaspoon of Kmeta to 6 gallons - How much can we cut back on sulfites. I was going use the suggested amount of 250-500 ppm and take a guess and cut the Kmeta in half.
 

Johnd

Senior Member
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
6,700
Reaction score
6,693
Location
South Louisiana
Thanks Johnd

I do filter but not with a .45 micron. I'm going to try it. Not sure if my small vacuum pump will pull the wine through.

I read that if you use Lysozyme you can decrease your sulfites. However I can't seem to find a formula. If I usually add 1/4 teaspoon of Kmeta to 6 gallons - How much can we cut back on sulfites. I was going use the suggested amount of 250-500 ppm and take a guess and cut the Kmeta in half.
Sulfite levels are based upon the pH of your wine, the 1/4 tsp per 6 gallons every 3 months is just a rule of thumb for those who don’t have the ability to measure sulfite levels and maintain them accordingly.
 

stickman

Veteran Winemaker
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
1,717
Reaction score
1,706
Lysozyme works, but it coagulates with tannin, so if you add it to a red wine, just be prepared for a precipitate much like an egg white fining. You'll have to let it fall out and rack before bottling.
 

montanarick

Senior Member
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
271
Reaction score
117
Location
Montana
Has anyone actually had any experience with adding lysozyme to wine after MLF has completed and then used sorbate before backsweetening? I know everyone says not to add sorbate - just asking?
 

cuz

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
181
Reaction score
14
Hey montanarick - that's what I was thinking. Maybe if we use the lysozyme then we can use sorbate on our wine that went through MLF and we also want to backsweeten. Let's see if anyone tried this.
Or will the response be never use sorbate with a MLF wine
 

montanarick

Senior Member
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
271
Reaction score
117
Location
Montana
Okay - i finally got brave enough to do a little trial on my 2018 Frontenac which had gone through MLF and cold stabilization. I've pulled out a single 750 ml bottle and added 0.5 gm lysozyme, 0.25 gm sorbate (both are about in the middle of recommended dosages) and 50 ml grape concentrate that was diluted 2:1. We'll see what happens in a few weeks and I'll report my finding back to the group.
 

montanarick

Senior Member
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
271
Reaction score
117
Location
Montana
Okay - i finally got brave enough to do a little trial on my 2018 Frontenac which had gone through MLF and cold stabilization. I've pulled out a single 750 ml bottle and added 0.5 gm lysozyme, 0.25 gm sorbate (both are about in the middle of recommended dosages) and 50 ml grape concentrate that was diluted 2:1. We'll see what happens in a few weeks and I'll report my finding back to the group.
Okay everyone - it's been two months in the bottle now and finally uncorked the Frontenac. Low and behold, no geranium smell or re-fermentation although the wine still shows all the characteristics of a young wine which was to be expected. Not exactly a scientifically controlled experiment, so if you decide to try this yourselves, you may want to do a small batch initially to insure yourselves that it can work.

As an aside, I discussed this topic with Mike Jones from Scott Labs back in March at the annual Montana Grape and Winery Association conference, and he agreed that use of lysozyme after MLF was an effective way to control MLB and allow use of sorbate for post fermentation sweetening.
 

Latest posts

Top