WineXpert Mezza Luna Red, First Kit, Bulk Aging, HighTemps

[TimeZone]

Hi, I'm a newbie and this is my first kit and attempt at making wine. Started the kit back on July 10th. Live in east Texas and it stays pretty hot here. Keep the room set at about 75, but it might get a few degrees hotter at times.

During the primary fermentation, I think the temp of the must got to about 79 - 80 when it was really at its peak, and probably about 76 later in the fermentation. I checked it on about the 6th day and it was already down to SG of 1.002. I probably could have moved to the next step a day or two earlier really I guess based on that. I wonder about the oak flavoring though, and if you should leave it 7 days or so to get all of that flavor into the must even if you SG has really dropped? Guess 6 is probably fine.

I was concerned about the high temps at first, but an article from Winemaker magazine made me feel better about the temp, and so did watching George's video where he said his temp was usually 75 or a little higher.

I then racked into my carboy (using just standard racking cane and tubing), but I'm afraid that I might have transferred too much sediment perhaps. I was able to fill the carboy right up to the bottom of where the throat goes up. I really wasn't able to make out any lees or anything during the siphon. It is a red wine and I guess maybe tough to tell especially for a first time at this. The siphoning was pretty slow as it seemed that it was sucking in oak around the siphon. All that was really left in the bucket was what looked like the oak and a little juice which I guess had some sediment in it, but really didn't seem like much to me. I guess I was expecting the white dead yeast at the bottom and I didn't see anything like that. So, I probably moved over more sediment than I was suppose to maybe, not sure if that causes any problems.

After 11 days (SG at .998 today and day before) when it came time to degas and add the other package contents I ran into a problem. I found the plastic spoon I have wouldn't fit into the Carboy (Better Bottle), and I don't have any sort of drill type mixer. So I looked at the Better Bottle website and saw some things on degassing that included swirling the carboy around by using a tennis ball underneath it and even putting it on its side and sloshing the mix around.

Well I did all of these methods to mix it up before I added the metabisulphite and sorbate mix and then after I added them. Then I mixed up again after adding the Chitosan. I really sloshed it up pretty good. Hopefully although I didn't use a spoon I got it mixed well. I am concerned from some things I've read that I might have mixed a little too much maybe as I wasn't really thinking about oxidation and might have exposed it to too much oxygen when I was really sloshing this mix around for a good while. Should I be concerned about that?? I mean I probably way over did this part and might have spent 30 minutes or so between all the mixings... It was still hard to tell if I got it degassed good though. It was still foaming up a little at the end even, but I think this may have been oxygen instead of Co2. I think with my high room temps it might not have had a lot of gas to get out perhaps.

August 9th will be 14 days from the the last step and time for bottling, but I was thinking I would wait maybe another week before I do anything. I am unsure if I should just go ahead and bottle or perhaps try to just let it bulk age for awhile? If I bulk age do I need to go ahead and move it to another container in the next couple of weeks to get it off the lees? I do not have another carboy right now, so if I do that unless I buy one I will have to transfer to my pail and then clean the carboy and transfer back to it.

I am kind of concerned about oxidation already, so I wonder if I shouldn't just go ahead and bottle and not do all these transfers that I would have to with bulk aging. I had originally thought I would try to bulk age for about 3 months before bottling. I was also reading about bottle shock last night and wasn't that familiar with that. That make me want to perhaps get it in the bottle to age sooner than I was thinking at first.

Another thing is the high temps here. Like I said it stays about 75 in the house and I have no basement / cellar or anything to store the wine and age it. I only have a small wine fridge that holds about 8 bottles that is of no help for anything like this. I was wondering what George does on the aging part, since he has high temps on the ferment. Others in the same pickle?

This is also my first wine and would kind of like to try some. It might be good to bottle so I could sample one at a month, then 2, 3 months etc. Who knows, maybe I've ruined something already and a long wait might be for naught if I have a spoiled or bad tasting wine.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[grapeman]

Welcome to the forum TimeZone.


First, turn the spoon over to fit in the carboy. Just sloshing the wine around won't even begin to get the gas out. Don't be afraid to agitate it good. The idea is to get the C02 gas out of the wine. That displaces the oxygen that might get in the carboy- so you are plenty safe. Don't push the days and rush it. You need to give it time to let the lees precipitate out of suspension even with the clarifiers added. If you rush it like most beginners, you will get lots of sediment in the bottle.


Take your time, ask questions and learn patience. It is your most important tool you can have.

 

[vcasey]

Welcome to wine making.
I keep the house at 75 so you should have no problems with fermenting or storing. The biggest concern is big swings in temps.
Racking aggressively and getting some of the lees and oak will not hurt, many of us do that and it makes clearing a bit easier. Leaving the wine for another week or so will not hurt it at all. I tend to rack back to the fermenting bucket, clean the carboy and rack it back often (I'm lazy) and it does help to degas and in your case it might be a good idea since you are concerned. When you rack it back to the carboy just top it off with a similar wine and let it age, that should also help with the degassing.
Patience is the best ingredient to making wine, so as soon as you can start another kit while you enjoy this one. You may want to put a case away and give it a year or two - you'll be glad you did!
VC

 

[pelican]

HI TimeZone, welcome to the forum. I just lost a long post in reply to your concerns but I see Vcasey and Applemanhit my main points in far fewer words, so it must have been meant to be !

One more thing though combining your not having another carboy and also degassing troubles - if you do rack from the carboy into the bucket (and clean the carboy to go back in there), then while it's in the bucket you can stir it up a lot better than you can while it's in the carboy.

I wouldn't (and don't) worry about oxidation when there is that much CO2 to drive off. Freshly made wine, especially kit wine, is far more reslient and 'tough' than we give it credit for (in my opinion).

Leaving it wait for bottling will definitely help with having less sediment fall out while in the bottle - and the benefit is you can taste it from the carboy too!! (again, don't worry too much about oxidation if the carboy is less the 105% full... keep a bottle of cheap dry red on hand to top up with if you want, don't use water although of course if that's all you have you can). Your first wine certainly shouldn't be your last - this hobby becomes an obsession quickly, so enjoy your wine and if you really like it and you drink it all -- MAKE MORE! MAKE MORE and drink what you make until you've made enough to save some back for a while to age, while you still have some to drink now. (That's my approach, you are more than free to disagree and I won't mind a bit!

)

 

[Wade E]

As many of our wine makers here have told you, you are doing fine but like appleman said you may need to degas better even if it clears fine, it may have residual C02 left in it and that will hold very fine sediment in the wine and your wine will be slightly carbonated. As far as temps go, the temps you speak of are fine but if it gets any hotter then that set the carboy in a tub of cool water and wrap it with a wet t-shirt that is touching the cool water below like a wick as it will keep the temps down during fermentation. As far as storing goes those temps will be ok but the real problem is light and unstable temps so keep your wine in a dark place with little to no temp fluctuations. Glad to have you here.

 

[TimeZone]

Thanks guys for all the replies, appreciate it.

@appleman I may not have gotten all the gas out, not sure, but I think I really did okay (might need to redo to be sure with mix blade or spoon). I think I'm more concerned with oxidation, but hopefully that's ok as you'll don't think I should be too worried about that it sounds. This is what I did: http://better-bottle.com/products_master.html
Unfortuately it doesn't let me link directly to that section, but if you hover the mouse over the How to Tips on the left and click on Mixing/Desgassing section, it has the swirling thing and turning the carboy on its side and I did both of those a bunch. I built up too much pressure at one point and wine squirted all over my wall and stuff.

That was a pain! LOL. Wasn't that much wine really, but it really made a mess.

I need a better spoon also, as the biggest one I could find local (Wal-mart) is a plastic one that is only a little over 13". Way too short and if I turn it over its just a thin stick on the handle end and will be even shorter because the big spoon end won't allow it to go down that far into a carboy. I guess I will have to see about ordering a spoon from George as well as a blade mixer and some other goodies. I know I want an auto-siphon and a few other things also.

@vcasey Goog to hear about your temps. The house temp is pretty steady, so I think I should be good there. I guess its just a little on the warm side, not ideal for storage, but not too much I can easily do to fix that.

@pelican Thanks for taking the time to reply. I know it can be very frustrating to put in a long comment and then lose it. Done that before a few times.

Thanks for responding and typing something up and the encouragement. Good point about degassing in the pail being easier for me to do. I think along with some of the other stuff, I might just go ahead and get another Better Bottle so that I can go right to that and then also get a mix blade and/or longer spoon to use. Hopefully the wine was protected from oxidation by the CO2 as you mention. Really need another carboy anyway if I'm going to do much of this.

@wade Hi, hope I got the CO2 out, but I think I will get the mix tool and rack this into another carboy and try from there to make sure or is there any reason it might need to be while still in this carboy and re-mixed with the lees? I do not have a perfectly dark space for the carboy, but I do have it wrapped with some towels and think it keeps it pretty dark. There is also no direct sunlight or lighting on it and where its at I believe keeps a pretty steady temp of around 75 within a couple of degrees.

So it looks like I'll order some more tools and then rack, degas, and bulk age it for awhile. Should that be done within 3 weeks of doing the stablising and clearing stage to get it away from the lees or is it okay to wait much longer? Since I probably moved a lot of sediment over in the first place I wondered if that might mean it needs to be racked sooner than perhaps otherwise?

Thanks for all the help!

 

[vcasey]

When I rack the first time I bring a lot of sediment over, don't want to lose any wine. So don't worry about that part. Order your toys er tools from George including an extra pack of superkleer, you won't need it but it may make you feel better knowing its available. When everything arrives (George ships fast), degas the wine and let it finish clearing. Don't worry so much about too much oxygen, the nice thing about that gas is it does protect the wine. You'll find that wine kits are hard to mess up so relax and enjoy and don't forget to order another kit.
VC

 

[TimeZone]

Hi again, its been two weeks since I did the stabilizing/ clearing, and degassing (that may or may not have been good enough).

Normally the directions for the kit would have me bottle now or wait another week if not clear. I still haven't tried degassing the wine again or anything since my original posting. I still need to decide on what all I'm going to order and get that placed on George's site. Hopefully I'll get that done in the next couple of days.

So if I get this stuff in and it's been about 3 weeks since the last step, do I need to go ahead and rack to another carboy leaving the sediment behind or should I do the degassing step in the current carboy? I am guessing I should move it.

I read some things about getting the wine off of the lees that can give a foul taste and then I read some other things about the lees giving more flavors to the wine and to even mix it back up with some wines.. I guess if I did the degassing again in the current carboy than I would probably need to wait another week or two to clear before racking the wine. Any thoughts? Would this also be in contact with the lees too long? How long is safe?

 

[v1rotate]

I would say to rack first, then degas. You will want to wait at least a week after that before bottling. If you have the time, I would suggest letting the wine rest in the carboy for another 4 to 6 weeks before bottling. It helps the flavor and nose, imho.

Here is a Winemaker magazine article concerning timeframes you might find interesting: http://www.winemakermag.com/component/content/article/26/850

 

[TimeZone]

Jim, Thanks for the link. Good read and sounds like a pretty good timeline to go by. Believe I will rack first, try degassing again, and then leave it there for a couple of months before bottling.

 

[uavwmn]

TimeZone, Hi, and welcome to the fun sport....er.....hobby....er addiction!!
I live in AZ where it is hot and dry. I keep the AC around 76 - 77. My wine rack is in the hallway where there is no direct sunlight. I was concerned about heat also. But my wines have survived and they have turned out wonderful. So, don't fret too much on the 75 temp. As long as there is no big temp swings, you are fine.
Sounds like you are on the right track and have fun!! Don't panic, wine is pretty forgiving when you think you have messed up in a step. Enjoy!!

 

[Scott B]

East Texas!! Me Too!


I have been out of town for two weeks and just now looked at your posting.


Welcome to the group!

 

[TimeZone]

@uavwmn Thanks, I guess I will have to do with my high temps for now and it seems that it may not be that bad. Glad you have done well with it and hopefully I will have the same success with mine.

@Scott B Yes, I was noticing your Tyler,TX sig and I'm just south around Jacksonville. I'm in Tyler a bunch though and may go ahead and move up there sometime, not much of anything in Jacksonville. You've also made some nice looking wines and seem to be going blockbusters at this, so its nice to have another local on the forum. All of the local wineries such as Kiepersol to the Maydelle Winery, and Dixie Wine in Bullard, etc., got me interested in trying it out myself. Lot to learn, but it's fun.

 

[TimeZone]

I finally racked the wine and degassed on the 21st. Racked into the fermenting pail and used the 24" mix stir but never really got any gas or foaming action even though I used the drill and got it spinning pretty good multiple times. Think my previous attempt must have gotten the gas out already, or perhaps I just didn't do it right.. I believe it must be okay though. I also added 6 campden tabs to the wine.

I then (after cleaning and sanitizing the carboy) racked back into it. I had to add about a bottle of a commercial red wine I had on hand to top it off. Is this normal? Wasn't expecting to have to add that much.

I plan on bulk aging for two months and then bottling. Will I need to add more K meta at that time?