Metallic Taste in all Reds?

Discussion in 'Kit Winemaking' started by Sudz, Dec 29, 2017.

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  1. Feb 12, 2019 at 8:31 PM #21

    Trick

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    To understand the difference, you need to go to the fundamental for find out why the kit red is different. Commercial White wine is fermented from pressed juice, which is similar to white kit wine making. That is why the kit white is close to the commercial counterparts. However, Reds are the different story. Commercial red wine is made from skin maceration, which uses alcohol to soak out the flavor (at least in majority). But kit red is very different. It first undergoes a series of chemical/physical processing such as heating, vacuum evaporation, enzyme treatment etc. to extract the flavor from skin without alcohol. (May use a process called flash extraction, I guess). No surprise the result product will be different. Just think about this: If this process were good and can achieve a good result comparable with conventional approach, why the commercial guys don't use this approach widely and join us to make kit wine (lol)? There should be some deficiency inherent to this approach, such as losing or change aroma.
    That can also explain why the high end red kid comes with skin.
     
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  2. Feb 12, 2019 at 9:05 PM #22

    jbo_c

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    Actually, according to the esteemed Tim Vandergrift, many large companies that make everyday plonk, do just that to maintain continuous supply.

    Jbo
     
  3. Feb 12, 2019 at 10:03 PM #23

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    i heard some commertial guys use this flash method to treat some low quality crops to cover some moldy flavour.
     
  4. Feb 13, 2019 at 1:34 AM #24

    cmason1957

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    There are at least five wineries that I know of that make wine from basically the same kits that you and I can buy. They are Winery sized, in that they make 30-60 gallons, instead of 6 gallons.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019 at 11:30 PM
  5. Feb 13, 2019 at 2:18 PM #25

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    Is it possible that something in the water is reacting with something in the red kits to produce the taste you're referring to?
     
  6. Feb 13, 2019 at 2:19 PM #26

    salcoco

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    have you tried changing the water used to reconstitute the concentrate? I just typed mine at same time as bstnh1.
     
  7. Feb 13, 2019 at 2:30 PM #27

    jbo_c

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    That’s a good question, but yes I’ve tried changing the water too. I’ve used city, bottled spring, and deep well water with the same results.

    I will say, I thought I had a batch of EP super Tuscan degassed over the weekend, but I hit it again last night and got out lots more. I’m still open to the potential that degassing inadequately is part of the problem. Some of the faults fit.

    Jbo
     
  8. Feb 13, 2019 at 5:48 PM #28

    Brian55

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    How much wine does one balloon hold? :a1
     
  9. Feb 13, 2019 at 6:01 PM #29

    Dom Lausic

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    I'm wondering in Potassium Metabisulfite (K-Meta) could be the issue. If I'm not mistaken, the 4 gram pack that comes with the kit raises the ppm of sulfites rather high to ensure the wine is protected. I've typically added a healthy dose of K-Meta to my wines just before bulk aging in barrels. And when I get in there monthly to top up and taste, early on, they can have a slight taste to what I'd describe as "metallic". Tends to go away over time in the barrel. Especially because I think the splash racking helps dissipate it a bit.

    Wonder if this could be what you're tasting??
     
  10. Feb 13, 2019 at 11:31 PM #30

    cmason1957

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    I should know better than to use my silly tablet. The odd thing is that it auto-changed one and not the other.
     
  11. Feb 14, 2019 at 2:45 PM #31

    Rice_Guy

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    Reds and whites will be done on the same vacuum evaporator to produce the concentrated juice. (the equipment is fairly expensive) Small suppliers may use older scraped surface hardware but again they will do both reds and whites in the same processing equipment. If they are real small they may schedule the day going from low color/flavor juice to a rose to a red within the 8 or 12 hour day. Drying skins would be a tray or belt drier with hot air.
    The main difference is going to be the tannins/ phenolics/ etc which come from the skins.
     
  12. Feb 14, 2019 at 3:43 PM #32

    Boatboy24

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    I've had that experience (metallic taste/nose) with probably 40% of my red kits. I can't trace it back to a single thing. It's one reason that the kit I started last month is the first red kit I've done in a few years.
     
  13. Feb 14, 2019 at 3:45 PM #33

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    With the exception of the little bit of warm water used to dissolve the bentonite, I use bottled spring water. Can't imagine that would cause an issue.
     
  14. Feb 14, 2019 at 6:41 PM #34

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    It makes sense. The heat involved in the process (like cooking the skin) might also be a factor. (Just guessing).
    I can tell the difference between the kit and the store bought wine. But I am ok with the kit flavor.
     
  15. Feb 14, 2019 at 7:10 PM #35

    Brian55

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    Especially when the kit wine flavor is better, for less than half the price, often times a third or fourth of the price. As you move up into pricier wines, commercial wines will tend to win.
     
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  16. Feb 14, 2019 at 9:19 PM #36

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    Exactly my thoughts. I started out with beer and they said that any water that tastes good will make good beer. BULL. I have great tasting well water that is run through a water softner and all my beers had a "flavor line", not terrible but shouldn't be there. I finally went to carbon filtered, UV sanitized water and the taste went away.

    When I started making wine kits, I just using the same water, no problems.

    My other thought....are you using the same bucket every time? Neighbor lady was getting a funk....bought a new bucket, problem solved.
     
  17. Feb 15, 2019 at 3:57 PM #37

    masic2000

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    I've been using fresh grape must, from Mosti Mondiale, for years here up in Canada and I too have that metallic taste, but only when the wine is very young, like 3-6 months. After a couple of years that off taste is gone. The only thing I add is K-meta after the secondary and every 3-months during racking. No other chemicals and no MF. I will be trying this out on a kit this year just to see what a kit can offer.
     
  18. Feb 15, 2019 at 5:02 PM #38

    Keith5

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    I am clearing my first Cab Sauvignon 6 gallon kit and 5 gallons of blueberry now, PER INSTRUCTIONS. Idk yet if I have this metallic taste issue. After reading and thinking on this, I may try filtering my water prior to the next kit through my Buon Vino minijet with a size 1 filter prior to starting next fermentation on new kit, just to see if that helps. I will be using bottled artesian well water commercially available.
    Does filtering post secondary help minimize the metallic taste?

    Someone else says time/aging helps. Maybe it’s just how red wines do what they do? They need time to evolve into what they are supposed to be, like our teenage children.
    Metallic aftertaste makes me think more of kmeta and/or Sorbate levels and/or potential acid imbalance rather than water issues. But what do I know,lol .
    This is why we don’t earn our living doing this.

    I do believe this idea.....wine kits do Not equal fresh crushed grapes and 30 years of experience in traditional winemaking techniques.
    Ex- I have had homemade wines made in Croatia from grapes grown on the patio, using old world basic winemaking processes that were VERY good. Better than kit wines but also very inconsistent from year to year and location to location. I’d bet same experience from small towns in Italy.
    Maybe the US FDA or regulatory body for our wine kits create a step in process that makes it different? Idk.
    It’s FUN to create the product and Solve the mysteries that evolve, dontcha think? Let’s just keep making wine. It’s fun. You guys are teaching me ALOT.
    Thank you for that.
     
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  19. Feb 15, 2019 at 6:19 PM #39

    jbo_c

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    Don’t assume you’ll taste it. Apparently most do not. For me the jury is still out on whether it’s a palate issue or a winemaking issue. I have to admit that I think it’s a palate issue, but I really hope to find it is a process fault that I can fix.

    Jbo
     

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