Malolactic chromatography recommendations

[ChuckD]

I have three wines (Petite Pearl- Brix 22.5) (Marquette- Brix 23.5) (Verona - Brix 18 but adjusted to 22). I pitched Red Star Premiere Rouge on 9/25, inoculated with Wyeast 4007 culture on 9/27, pressed on 9/29 with an SG of 1.000 to 1.002 and racked off the cross lees on 10/5.

This is all new to me. How long should I expect Malo to take? Do I need to do the chromatography test or can I just give it a few weeks then add k-meta and bulk age? If I do chromatography, what test brand do you recommend? The ones I looked at seem pretty pricey.

 

[crushday]

The ones I looked at seem pretty pricey.

Interesting perspective. I looked at several retailers that sell chromatography tests kits - they are about $100. You get 25 test sheets. I often do 11 tests per sheet. My math tells me that costs 36 cents per wine test. Even if your volume was 1 gallon, that's 36 cents per test, or 7.2 cents per bottle. But, I'll assume you're testing 6 gallon carboys of wine. At that volume your price per bottle is only 1.2 cents which falls below the threshold of pricey.

To answer your timeline question - expect MLF to take 5 or 6 weeks if inoculated post AF.

 

[ChuckD]

Interesting perspective. I looked at several retailers that sell chromatography tests kits - they are about $100. You get 25 test sheets. I often do 11 tests per sheet. My math tells me that costs 36 cents per wine test. Even if your volume was 1 gallon, that's 36 cents per test, or 7.2 cents per bottle. But, I'll assume you're testing 6 gallon carboys of wine. At that volume your price per bottle is only 1.2 cents which falls below the threshold of pricey.

Yeah I was just looking at the up-front cost. That’s not bad on a per-test basis. Still, is it necessary? Can I just wait it out for a time and assume the ML fermentation is finished?

 

[crushday]

Yeah I was just looking at the up-front cost. That’s not bad on a per-test basis. Still, is it necessary? Can I just wait it out for a time and assume the ML fermentation is finished?

Necessary? The addition of KMeta protects the wine from spoilage and oxygen and, immediately halts MLB at 40+ ppm. The tension is protecting the wine AND allowing the conversation of malic to lactic acid, which in most instances improves the sensory profile of red wine - whites too.

In short, the necessity of protecting the wine as soon as possible requires knowing when MLF has completed.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

You can get a general idea by opening the bung and listening - MLF is less vigorous than primary fermentation but you should still be able to hear a faint 'crackling'. When the crackling stops (or slows to just one pop every couple of seconds) I would break out the test kit. I don't get as many samples per test as @crushday , but I still think it's a worthwhile investment.

I just pitched MLB in my 2022 elderberry wine. I understand that elderberry takes a while to get good, but am disappointed in my 2021 so far: great aroma, somewhat sour taste. It will be interesting to see what MLF does since I understand it can also decrease citric acid (present in elderberries) as well as malic.

 

[Johnd]

Assuming that you decided to do MLF for a reason, and not just because you think its a step, wouldn’t you want to know if it had actually occurred? From a wine improvement standpoint, as well as getting your wine protected asap, it would seem that you know whether or not it had ever started, made any progress, or was complete. You’re the winemaker, you don’t HAVE to do anything.

Since no one else mentioned it, I will note for you that getting MLF started isn’t a no brainer. You co-inoculated, that’s a good thing, did you use any sulfite prior to fermentation? What’s the pH of the wines, and what temperature are they stored at currently? Did you use any MLB activator or nutrients during the process?

You can also test the levels of malic acid in your wine quickly, but not as cost effectively as chromatography, with one of these little gems: https://www.amazon.com/Accuvin-Malolactic-Fermentation-Strip-Contains/dp/B002SWHMS6

Whatever you decide is your business, just seems like if it’s worth the effort to try, it’s worth the effort to find out if you succeeded, IMO.

 

[cmason1957]

I use the little gems that John points out above, with the understanding that I take a test after 1-2 months of seeing something that might be activity and then continue for 1-2 months after the tests show no evidence of malic acid. I am lazy and find them the easiest thing to use, a few drops, wait (maybe 10 minutes, the direction say) and then look for color change. I think they cost about $50 for 10 tests or $5 each. Assuming 30 bottles that works out to about $0.20 / bottle.

Also a warning about Wyeast 4007, very few folks who report using it have reported good results and completion of malolactic conversion. It is the least expensive form of malolactic bacteria, but that comes with a price, it also has the lowest level of SO2 tolerance 15 ppm. If you added any K-Meta at crush you will be above that level. As a comparision, I use Enoform Alpha or Beta and it has an SO2 tolerance of about 50 ppm.

The real risk with not testing to see that it started and completed is that in 6 months or a year after bottling, it does start. Now at a minimum, you have fizzy wine. I suppose you could even end up with bottle bombs, but I don't know if malolactic conversion gives off enough CO2 for that to be a real worry or not. It certainly is nothing like a renewed alcoholic fermentation. Can't say I've ever seen a bubble out of my airlock from it.

 

[ChuckD]

Thanks everyone for your input. I’ll stop being cheap and order a ML chromatography kit.

K-meta was added at crush but not when I pressed so now I’m worried I’m not getting any ML fermentation. I did add it because I was told it would soften the wine and reduce acidity. These are my first wines from grapes and I want to do it right. Since racking off the gross lees there is very little “activity” in the carboys… just a few pin-prick bubbles rising. It could just be CO2 off gassing.

It’s been 3 weeks since inoculation. How long would you wait for the first test?

 

[Jbu50]

The cheap kits will get you in the game and help you learn how to do the test but you'll most likely run out of supplies quickly. After a few tests I had to buy more developer solution, and now I'm low on capillary pipets and paper.

 

[ChuckD]

The cheap kits will get you in the game and help you learn how to do the test but you'll most likely run out of supplies quickly. After a few tests I had to buy more developer solution, and now I'm low on capillary pipets and paper.

What kit would you recommend? Or not recommend?

 

[BarrelMonkey]

What kit would you recommend? Or not recommend?

I have the kit from morewinemaking.com. I only used it once last year, but it worked out well. The time taken to complete MLF depends on many factors (pH, SO2, temperature etc) but I'd wait at least 4-6 weeks and listen for (lack of) bubbling before testing.

 

[Johnd]

Thanks everyone for your input. I’ll stop being cheap and order a ML chromatography kit.

K-meta was added at crush but not when I pressed so now I’m worried I’m not getting any ML fermentation. I did add it because I was told it would soften the wine and reduce acidity. These are my first wines from grapes and I want to do it right. Since racking off the gross lees there is very little “activity” in the carboys… just a few pin-prick bubbles rising. It could just be CO2 off gassing.

It’s been 3 weeks since inoculation. How long would you wait for the first test?

I didn't want to poop on your parade, but @cmason1957 is dead on regarding the Wyeast stuff, it seems to be very difficult to get to conduct a malolactic fermentation. Best bets are to spend a few bucks and use VP 41, CH16, or the like, and use the rehydration protocol, along with the nutrients.

 

[ChuckD]

I didn't want to poop on your parade, but @cmason1957 is dead on regarding the Wyeast stuff, it seems to be very difficult to get to conduct a malolactic fermentation. Best bets are to spend a few bucks and use VP 41, CH16, or the like, and use the rehydration protocol, along with the nutrients.

At this point will a test show if ML has started? Would it be ok to get one of those and inoculated again? How long can I wait before I need to “pull the plug” and add k-meta to protect the wine?

 

[hbd_Indy]

The cheap kits will get you in the game and help you learn how to do the test but you'll most likely run out of supplies quickly. After a few tests I had to buy more developer solution, and now I'm low on capillary pipets and paper.

 

[hbd_Indy]

Presque Isle Winery has reasonable prices for mail order malolactic chromatography supplies.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

At this point will a test show if ML has started?

I don't think you'll be able to see if MLF has started without a 'before' sample - and even then, the data from a ML chromatography test will only be semi-quantitative. You could perhaps tell 'partially complete' from 'complete', but I think harder to be more granular than that.

 

[Johnd]

At this point will a test show if ML has started? Would it be ok to get one of those and inoculated again? How long can I wait before I need to “pull the plug” and add k-meta to protect the wine?

Without a "before" picture, it'll be hard to tell, unless you do a chromotography that shows all of the malic has converted to lactic acid, or you use test strips that indicate a very low level of malic acid, less than .1g/L. You can always try to get some more hardy strains of MLB and start over, many folks don't add MLB until this point anyway, so it's possible for sure. Just need to pay attention to the sensitivity factors of the chosen MLB. For VP-41, pH of 3.2 or higher, temps in the 70's, ABV below 14%, use a good rehydrating additive like Acti-ML and a good nutrient like Opti-Malo to boost your chances of success. In some of my earlier attempts that failed, I've had wines go 4 or 5 months post fermentation without sulfite with no ill effects. Just be clean and make sure your vessels are topped up to the tippy top, no big air spaces.

 

[Jbu50]

I've had wines go 4 or 5 months post fermentation without sulfite with no ill effects. Just be clean and make sure your vessels are topped up to the tippy top, no big air spaces.

That makes me nervous and wondering how comfortable others are leaving unprotected wine sit while waiting for malo to complete!?

 

[Johnd]

That makes me nervous and wondering how comfortable others are leaving unprotected wine sit while waiting for malo to complete!?

I was a nervous wreck too, at least the first time. Follow good sanitation and storage practices and all will be good.

 

[cmason1957]

Whenever I start to worry about how long the wine suits unprotected, I think to how wines were and somewhat still are made in France. Into a barrel in Oct. or Nov. Malolactic might start then, but more likely not until springtime. Then maybe SO2 gets added around June or July. No need to worry admit three or four months. Just follow good sanitation, good storage practices (mostly just topped up well) and remain calm.