making wine "the old way"?

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Assuming that this is not your first adventure into wine making (Based on number of previous posts) Hopefully you have some of the basic tools. Unfortunately the folks who sell starter kits to consumers leave out any pH testing tools.

Even a simple package of pH test strips would work for white or light colored wines. So you have at least 3 ways to test the acidity of your wine in the making.
1) pH test strips - you need some made for wine that will measure between 3.0 and 3.8 That would let you know if your wine is within the correct range. The problem is that test strips require you to interpret the color results and that ranges from slightly difficult (white wines) to impossible (Red wines or for the color blind). (Cost -$3.00-$10.00)
2) A TA test kit. They work great but remember that the sample, though small, becomes toxic after the test and has to be tossed out. They are very accurate and relatively easy to use if you follow the included directions. (Cost - $8.00-$15.00)
3) A pH meter. Easiest to use and you can test as often as you like without losing the test sample or running out of material (Test strips or Chemicals) like 1 & 2. You do have to check calibration on them peridically as they can drift off. They require basic care and recalibration solutions to re-calibrate but other than that they are probably the easiest test tool to use. (Cost -$20.00 - $ Hundreds (for the high-class an swell varities)) With a pH meter you can also do a TA test with the most accurate results but again that would require an additional chemical and render the sample toxic just as in thee standard TA test process.

Don't forget that pH and TA test acidity slightly differently but the end results you need are - Is my wine acidic enough to keep or is it over the top acidic and need to be toned down. (If you need help understanding the difference between TA and pH look through the threads on this forum - there are some excellent posts to help you underdstand.

One last point - some folks test both, some only do pH, some only do TA, and some don't test at all. The choice is yours and there is no wrong answer as long as you know the possible end results of your choice.

Thanks for that helpful answer. I will try the test strips for my white wine, but see if the wine making store down the road has one of the other two for my red. And I will read about the difference between TA and pH.
Btw. I'm not using any starter kit. I saw them at the store, but thought maybe you need certain kinds of grapes for them, since they had names of the wines it turns into. Proves I know nothing by far yet.
 
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Actually talking about a generic starter kit like the "Master Vintner Fresh Harvest Fruit Winemaking Kit" It has the hardware and basic 'chemicals' needed to make wine. That was my starting point and I've added quite a few other items since then.
 
Thanks. There had been no rain for quite a long time, and the grapes were very sweet. But I think I understand you to mean to say that I won't get the alcohol content I am looking for? So that means the wine is now done as far as it can be done?

Once you get down to .994 or lower, and stays there for 2-3 days, the ferment is done. Without a starting SG, it's hard to say what your ABV is at, but from your description of how sweet the grapes were, you are probably OK.

Next time make sure your starting SG is at least 1.08. If you finish out at .990 you will have 11.79% alcohol. (1.08-.990 x 131) You want at least 10% to protect the wine from spoilage. I usually shoot for 11% to 14% in my wines.
 
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Hey Drainsurgeon - Agree with you on that. Typically if you wind up doing a little topping off with water (Hey - no hate comments on this :h ) as a lot of us do instead of introducing different flavors, your alcohol level will drop a little but as you said by shooting a little higher that final ABV will remain high enough to help prevent spoilage. At least that's the way I run my batches. I like to keep my wines 100% of one variety of fruit whenever possible unless I plan a mix or additive flavor before starting. Most times I'm adding no more than 8-12 ozs throughout the process so dilution is not a serious issue.
 
Actually talking about a generic starter kit like the "Master Vintner Fresh Harvest Fruit Winemaking Kit" It has the hardware and basic 'chemicals' needed to make wine. That was my starting point and I've added quite a few other items since then.
I might try that once. Just seemed like so much money for the little bit I'm making. Besides, I like learning by trying and asking. Btw. nobody seems to sell all those things you need to measure the pH and TA here. And the wine maker down the road doesn't even know where to get them. He never checks.
One of my DJs is at .994 now, and it tastes right. I will remember to check the SG tomorrow when I harvest my white grapes. One important lesson learned. :db
 
Once you get down to .994 or lower, and stays there for 2-3 days, the ferment is done. Without a starting SG, it's hard to say what your ABV is at, but from your description of how sweet the grapes were, you are probably OK.

Next time make sure your starting SG is at least 1.08. If you finish out at .990 you will have 11.79% alcohol. (1.08-.990 x 131) You want at least 10% to protect the wine from spoilage. I usually shoot for 11% to 14% in my wines.

Yes, it's getting there, and I moved it closer to the stove. My house is so cold.
I had actually hoped to make a low alcohol wine, but if the alcohol has so much to do with whether the wine will spoil or not, I guess that's not possible?
 
even an old southern boy like me see's the humor in that,
dawg



To those with so much knowledge on wine making -
To those with so little knowledge on wine making -

This is for you (And me):

“A determined Yankee book drummer once told a Southerner that 'a set of books on scientific agriculture' would teach him to 'farm twice as good as you do.'

To which the Southerner replied: 'Hell, son, I don't farm half as good as I know how now.”
 
Yes, it's getting there, and I moved it closer to the stove. My house is so cold.
I had actually hoped to make a low alcohol wine, but if the alcohol has so much to do with whether the wine will spoil or not, I guess that's not possible?

A good way to see if there is enough alcohol is to drink a couple of bottles and see what happens. :D
 
Homemade wines are normally considered alcohol preserved at 10% and above. Below that you run that risk of spoilage if you keep it too long or something survived the sulfites.

As to the pH meter and other test kits - Amazon is the answer. You can get on with the initial buffer solutions (to make sure it's calibrated correctly) for about $20-25. You might get another set of buffer solutions to be able to re-calibrate later. If you are careful to prep it (set in Distilled water for 5 mins before testing) and more importantly rinse and dry before storing, your meter should hold calibration pretty well. I'd check it at least every 2-3 months. TA Kits - again on Amazon. They should come with 2 test solutions, instructions and at least one container for the testing. Test papers for pH - I wouldn't waste my money on them. Unless you do only white wines - reading the papers is very tough AND if you happen to be color blind - game over.

You can tell I favor a pH meter as simpler to use and not chemicals to age out or replace. AND nothing toxic involved. One I just saw this morning - Accuracy is given as +/- .01 which is plenty accurate enough for wine making. Just make sure you read the stated accuracy correctly - saw one given as .1 instead of .01 that would not be adequate. I also check customer reviews - I like to see lots of reviews not just 4-5 regardless of how good. And if there are more than 15% bad (1star) reviews - I move on.) That's just a personal note


Search for this on Amazon "Digital pH Meter .01"
 
That's probable US dollars, plus freight to Canada! I'm not rich, and not making money on this.;) If the pH strips don't work (going to try the drug store), I might go for it though. And yes, definitely will check reviews.
Started white wine last night, and CHECKED SG. It's 1.050. I can see that's not enough according to my meter, but will try it without adding sugar anyway. Just for experience.
One more question: so, if wine is spoiled, it tastes like what? rancid? I have never tasted spoiled wine.
 
Homemade wines are normally considered alcohol preserved at 10% and above. Below that you run that risk of spoilage if you keep it too long or something survived the sulfites.

As to the pH meter and other test kits - Amazon is the answer. You can get on with the initial buffer solutions (to make sure it's calibrated correctly) for about $20-25. You might get another set of buffer solutions to be able to re-calibrate later. If you are careful to prep it (set in Distilled water for 5 mins before testing) and more importantly rinse and dry before storing, your meter should hold calibration pretty well. I'd check it at least every 2-3 months. TA Kits - again on Amazon. They should come with 2 test solutions, instructions and at least one container for the testing. Test papers for pH - I wouldn't waste my money on them. Unless you do only white wines - reading the papers is very tough AND if you happen to be color blind - game over.



You can tell I favor a pH meter as simpler to use and not chemicals to age out or replace. AND nothing toxic involved. One I just saw this morning - Accuracy is given as +/- .01 which is plenty accurate enough for wine making. Just make sure you read the stated accuracy correctly - saw one given as .1 instead of .01 that would not be adequate. I also check customer reviews - I like to see lots of reviews not just 4-5 regardless of how good. And if there are more than 15% bad (1star) reviews - I move on.) That's just a personal note


Search for this on Amazon "Digital pH Meter .01"
Looks like you're right. I couldn't find pH strip for the right range, but found a wine supply store that did the test FOR me, with a pH meter. PH was too low (2.97), but they told me I can add a conditioner or mix it with a sweet wine. So I guess doing it the "old way" doesn't work that well here then. Unless I mix a low acid grape with a high acid one.(?) Any suggestions what a good low acid grape variety would be?
For the rest, thanks! Sure appreciate you guys/gals, whoever you are.
 
Adjusting the acidity isn't that tough at all. Also that reading isn't a barn burner low reading. I've seen several commercial wine sites that listed the pH reading of their wine. One was listed as 3.18 - Now by commons guidelines I see all the time that is too low but the tongue should be final judge. I would agree it should be adjusted at least to 3.2 or higher. This doesn't negate the idea of doing wine ' the old way ' it just means that like any wine made from fruit/grapes that isn't a prepared juice (Already adjusted) you are going to have to take readings and make adjustments now and then. The only acid issue I get worried about is if I think I have VA in the wine because those acids are the wicked ones that can ruin a batch. (VA - Volitile Acids like acetic acid that turns your wine into vinegar and other VAs as well with other bad impacts) That's the one of the reasons for the K-Meta additions before fermentation - to eliminate as much of those rogue bacteria that create those issues.
 
K-meta additions, that's the campden tablets, right? I did use those to sterilize everything, buckets, bottles, siphon hose, whatever. I understood the man at the wine making store to say that the low pH is what gives the sharp taste.(it's not like vinegar) I had hoped to made a more mellow wine (if you can say it that way)
 
K-meta additions, that's the campden tablets, right? I did use those to sterilize everything, buckets, bottles, siphon hose, whatever. I understood the man at the wine making store to say that the low pH is what gives the sharp taste.(it's not like vinegar) I had hoped to made a more mellow wine (if you can say it that way)

Yes, kmeta is the campden tablets.

Also, make sure your "sharp taste" isn't excess gas in the wine or due to the fact the wine is still very young.
 
I wouldn't waste campden tablets for sanitizing equipement. - Save it for adding to you must as needed at the appropriate times.

Use something like Star-San, One-Step etc - Much more economical and appropriate for the sanitizing of your equipment and containers.
 
Ok, thanks. I made a note of it. Btw. I found this article:http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/acid.asp Looks a bit complicated but interesting. If I haven't learnt anything else from all this, at least I do start to really appreciate a little about the art of making a good wine. Wow! Just imagine the olden-days-people who figured all this out by feel without all the science done for them.
 
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Yes, kmeta is the campden tablets.

Also, make sure your "sharp taste" isn't excess gas in the wine or due to the fact the wine is still very young.

Ok, thanks. But how can I know if it's excess gas? I found this: http://winemakersacademy.com/degas-wine/
I think that happened to my wine last year. It had bubbles when I bottled it, and now it tastes a bit sharper than last year.
 
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Ok, thanks. But how can I know if it's excess gas? I found this: http://winemakersacademy.com/degas-wine/
I think that happened to my wine last year. It had bubbles when I bottled it, and now it tastes a bit sharper than last year.

Can't answer that for sure. Hopefully someone else will chime in. If you had bubbles in it when bottled, and you are sure it was fermented dry, I would guess you didn't get it degassed all the way.
 
Well, I think my white wine spoiled. Just racked it. SG is 1.004, and it tastes like vinegar to me. Well, better luck next year maybe. The lid on the bucket didn't close that great. Maybe bacteria entered in there, who knows.
 

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