Looks oxidized?

[Rice_Guy]

Okay @winemaker81 and @Rice_Guy any other experiments I should do with an open wine? I'm serious! Always willing to learn!

I haven’t done bench trials on either of these to optimize number of drops dosage so I will be interested in what you like, (the vinters club is looking at a judge training program);
volatile acidity, VA; add a drop of 100 grain vinegar to 750 of wine. Mix using a tasting cork. Pour a wine glass and swirl then smell, , , you are looking for a weak salad dressing like odor. Taste wise the odor threshold sample should still be fresh/ acidic and pleasing, it will take another drop(s) to get to where taste starts getting bad. Natural production could be by making kombucha and then use the same carboy on wine.

ethyl acetate, nail polish; take the VA taste sample from above and oxidize it in a milk bottle like a sherry taste sample. Taste every month for six months. , , , I have taken ethyl acetate to vinters meetings and had someone say “This sure doesn’t taste/ smell like NN fruit in contest it wouldn’t place but its pretty good so l’ll have another glass.”

TCA/ Geranium (and all the above); there are flavor standards manufactured in England/ $500ish, where you dose a capsule of chemical into a 750 ml white wine to produce the defect. TCA is nasty since it is sensed at parts per trillion and could kill my taste buds for an hour.

 

[BigDaveK]

If you decide to make vinegar, keep it way away from your wines! From what I've read, it's possible to contaminate your wine. There are many sources online for vinegar making instructions.

I'm still considering Kombucha ...

I've read that about vinegar making also. I think it's a bit silly to think the acetobacter are very obedient and will ONLY stay in one room - just like yeast and dust and cat hair. However, I won't make it easier for them.

Been making kambucha for years. All you need is a SCOBY, tea, sugar. Every time you make a batch a new SCOBY is formed so if you know anyone who makes it they'd probably give you one. To be thorough - Symbiotic Colony Of Bacteria and Yeast.
I think this is the best place for information and materials -

https://www.kombuchakamp.com/
Oh, it's tart. The pH can easily be in the low 2.0's

 

[BigDaveK]

I haven’t done bench trials on either of these to optimize number of drops dosage so I will be interested in what you like, (the vinters club is looking at a judge training program);
volatile acidity, VA; add a drop of 100 grain vinegar to 750 of wine. Mix using a tasting cork. Pour a wine glass and swirl then smell, , , you are looking for a weak salad dressing like odor. Taste wise the odor threshold sample should still be fresh/ acidic and pleasing, it will take another drop(s) to get to where taste starts getting bad. Natural production could be by making kombucha and then use the same carboy on wine.

ethyl acetate, nail polish; take the VA taste sample from above and oxidize it in a milk bottle like a sherry taste sample. Taste every month for six months. , , , I have taken ethyl acetate to vinters meetings and had someone say “This sure doesn’t taste/ smell like NN fruit in contest it wouldn’t place but its pretty good so l’ll have another glass.”

TCA/ Geranium (and all the above); there are flavor standards manufactured in England/ $500ish, where you dose a capsule of chemical into a 750 ml white wine to produce the defect. TCA is nasty since it is sensed at parts per trillion and could kill my taste buds for an hour.

Fantastic @Rice_Guy !
I've read about wine faults but I don't have a reference point or experience with them. Time to play.

 

[Dan M]

I'm looking for a little help from the experienced winemakers, especially those who have made kit wines at some point. I posted the following text and got no replies. It must have been a remote thread because usually there is a flood of helpful information. Here goes...

"I made a couple blush wines from Winexpert kits and followed the directions quite closely. I bottled it in green bottles and there was really no exposure to light. The wine was a beautiful blush at bottling time, but a year or so later, the bottles I'm opening have an orange tint. It tastes OK, but the color really throws me. What happened? What did I do wrong? How can I fix it next time? Thanks."

The kits get bottled in 4-8 weeks so there isn't much time for oxidation to occur. I really would like my wines to be able to age for a couple years and be at their peak. Is it possible that oxidation is occurring in the bottle? I use natural corks and standard Bordeaux green bottles. Some of my white wines are also looking darker in color. If you have thoughts on this, please reply. Thank you!

 

[Ohio Bob]

Might need a little more info...
No real exposure to light, meaning you used green bottles? Or did you store in a dark basement?
Temperature might be another factor, room temperature storage, or cool basement, hot garage?

Not oxidized, because you kept the carboy topped off all the time?

8 weeks for a kit is what the kit instructions call for because the manufacturers want you to be successful, meaning you don’t make swill. You might be better off aging longer.

 

[Dan M]

Green bottles in cardboard boxes on their side, in finished basement with temp ~69 degrees F. Carboy was topped off to bottom of spout (for 2-6 weeks depending on kit). I agree on aging but these were some of my first batches so I was following the directions pretty closely. Directions call for bottle aging rather than bulk aging. Wine was really nice color when sampled in the first 10 months or so. Just recently noticed discoloration after 13-16 months in bottle.

 

[QuiQuog]

What kit? I did an Island Mist kit before. Never again. They must use some kind of additives for color, because it used to be a pretty pink blush. After a while, over a year, it separated out and there were pink crumbs that settled to the bottom.

 

[Dan M]

I haven't had the same issue with Island Mist kits, maybe because they were consumed by my family very quickly. I made a Sangiovese Rose 6-week kit and a White Zin 4-week kit that have discolored. My 6-week Gewurztraminer is getting darker too. The 6-week kits are medium grade while the 8-week kits are premium. I've only made reds from the premium kits and haven't really noticed discoloration there.

 

[Rice_Guy]

As implied by the term OXIDATION there is a reaction between oxygen, ,, polyphenol pigments and even alcohol.

"I made a couple blush wines from Winexpert kits and followed the directions quite closely. I bottled it in green bottles and there was really no exposure to light. The wine was a beautiful blush at bottling time, but a year or so later, the bottles I'm opening have an orange tint. It tastes OK, but the color really throws me. What happened? What did I do wrong? How can I fix it next time? Thanks."

The kits get bottled in 4-8 weeks so there isn't much time for oxidation to occur. I really would like my wines to be able to age for a couple years and be at their peak. Is it possible that oxidation is occurring in the bottle? I use natural corks and standard Bordeaux green bottles. Some of my white wines are also looking darker in color. If you have thoughts on this, please reply. Thank you!

* oxygen gets dissolved I water with normal operations as racking, bottling,filtering. It will eventually combine with chemically reduced compounds
* organic pigments/ polyphenols are not all stable. My favorite example of this is that the company produced marichino cherries by treating Montmercy cherries with SO2 to bleach out all color then add back artificial green or yellow or even red 40.
* polyphenols as a class are antioxidants, I would rather lose some color than taste acetaldehyde
* I like color and use “organic rules” and will add a percent of stable blue/ red fruit as aronia or black raspberry juice to a must. Your quick and dirty test for stability is sprinkle some powder metabisulphite on a test fruit and see if it bleaches out.
* natural cork will leak around 5mg oxygen per year. Nomacork is better with some grades (900) but they etch the circumference of some grades to mimic natural. Aluminum with Saran liner is currently the tightest wine bottle seal available.
* you can keep a thread alive longer by adding a new insight/ question once a day

 

[Raptor99]

* I like color and use “organic rules” and will add a percent of stable blue/ red fruit as aronia or black raspberry juice to a must. Your quick and dirty test for stability is sprinkle some powder metabisulphite on a test fruit and see if it bleaches out.

I have seen this happen when I mix Kmeta into a small sample of wine to be mixed back into the carboy. Are you saying that the color of some berries is more stable, and won't be affected in this way by Kmeta? Interesting...

 

[Rice_Guy]

Yes, some pigments resist oxidation/ SO2

Are you saying that the color of some berries is more stable, and won't be affected in this way by Kmeta?

All polyphenols will change to present a more brown hue with time