Looking to make my first batch

[Killa J]

Well, technically not my first one. I’ve now made a couple of jugs of wine from store bought grape juice and apple cider. They came out... ok. Not awful, not good. I have a few questions for my first “real” wine.

I wanted to make some better wine than that, so I am now the proud owner of 2 Speidel 30L fermenters. I’ve come to the conclusion that there were better (and less expensive) options for what I plan on doing, but great decisions aren’t my specialty.

Space is somewhat at a premium, and I live in an apartment. Glass carboys were out because of the potential for breaking and dumping wine onto my downstairs neighbors. And I can’t just have a whole bunch of extra carboys lying around. My plan is this: Primary fermentation, rack to empty container for secondary, then rack again to the original container for aging once the wine is clear. The problem I see arising is that if I make wine from a kit, it’s going to be 23L (before racking), leaving a huge amount of headspace. Is this as big of an issue as I’m thinking? I talked to the owner of Allinone Wine Pumps, and he recommended against using the Headspace Eliminator with the Speidels. Any suggestions on what to do?

My second issue is that I have no idea what wine kit to make first. I’m far from a wine connoisseur. Most of the time, I drink ~$10-12 bottles, or even wine-in-a-box. I have a friend that regularly has >$100 bottles, but I have found that this is wasted on me. I did really like one of the ones I tried at his house (a Caymus cabernet), but only a little bit more than my “special occasion” wine that I buy for 1/4 the price.

Long story short, I don’t need to make high end wine. But will the less expensive kits be at least as good as what I usually drink? Obviously I could screw it up, but assuming I make the wine correctly.

 

[sour_grapes]

You do not have too many good options. Here is a hokey one I just thought of, so there are likely some problems in this scheme.

Often, people add marbles or some other inert object to take up the extra space. That would work, but we are talking ~8 L of marbles! So how about adding 2L soda bottles that are filled with water? (I am assuming that the hole in the Speidel is larger than a soda bottle.) You would still need 4 of these, but it might work.

You could also purge the hell out of the headspace with an inert gas, but be forewarned that it is not easy to get all of the O2 out.

Another option is to top the fermenter off with large quantities of an inexpensive wine, like a boxed wine. Why not? What do you care? You still get to drink that wine later!

Or you could buy a carboy.

 

[mainshipfred]

First off, AIO Steve would rather lose a sale then sell you something that is questionable or won't work, he's just that kind of guy. As far as the head space and carboys go you really want to minimize head space at all times. You could consider pet (plastic) carboys if breakage is a concern. Personally if space were an issue I would have opted for one Speidel and one or two carboys. Since you do not yet have an inventory of wine I would suggest making a lower end kit. Although aging is always preferred lower end kits are quicker drinkers and being your first large batch of a better quality wine I'm afraid you will have a hard time keeping your hands off it. In my opinion a lower end kit if made properly will be as satisfying as your 10 -12 dollar bottles. Maybe more so since you made it yourself.

 

[Killa J]

First off, AIO Steve would rather lose a sale then sell you something that is questionable or won't work, he's just that kind of guy. As far as the head space and carboys go you really want to minimize head space at all times. You could consider pet (plastic) carboys if breakage is a concern. Personally if space were an issue I would have opted for one Speidel and one or two carboys. Since you do not yet have an inventory of wine I would suggest making a lower end kit. Although aging is always preferred lower end kits are quicker drinkers and being your first large batch of a better quality wine I'm afraid you will have a hard time keeping your hands off it. In my opinion a lower end kit if made properly will be as satisfying as your 10 -12 dollar bottles. Maybe more so since you made it yourself.

Steve was great. I emailed him and he called me to answer my questions. I’m still planning on getting the pump, just probably going to make a few batches with what I have now before that.

 

[mainshipfred]

When you do get it you'll kick yourself for not getting it sooner.

 

[Killa J]

I think I may just go ahead and order the pump, it will make my life easier.

I came up with a different possible solution to the extra headspace that won’t require any extra carboys. Not sure 100% of the feasibility, but they make 20L versions of the bags that are used for the BIB wines. I’m thinking I could sanitize it, put it inside the Carboy, then fill with distilled water until the wine is close to the top. You can fill it directly through the spigot with a little tool they sell. And since they sell wine in those bags, it’s at least safe to use.

 

[mainshipfred]

Again, Steve is going to lead you in the right direction. But even though the BIB bag is a really clever idea I think you will still have too much head space. I would highly recommend getting a plactic Pet carboy they are pretty cheap when purchased used. I believe Steve has a set up for Pet carboys.

 

[Donatelo]

Or you could buy a carboy.

Go to Wal Mart and pick up a 5-gallon bottle of water. drink the water, save the jug. Instant carboy!

 

[Killa J]

Go to Wal Mart and pick up a 5-gallon bottle of water. drink the water, save the jug. Instant carboy!

Can I use those? I can get empty ones for free at work.

I ended up buying 4 PET carboys for bulk aging. Kind of makes me regret buying the Speidels though, since I’m basically just going to use them as fancy buckets.

 

[Stressbaby]

As far as the head space goes, I would give consideration to buying a 1 gal kit and combining it with the 23l kit. That won't get you to 30l but might get you close enough that you could close the rest of the gap with an inexpensive store-bought wine.

Then there are supposed to be commercial versions of the "bag of water in the carboy to reduce the headspace" idea. I don't know how well they actually work or where to get them.

 

[cmason1957]

Go to Wal Mart and pick up a 5-gallon bottle of water. drink the water, save the jug. Instant carboy!

I use many of the Better Bottle type of plastic carboys, but I don't think I would ever use any of the water bottles you can get at Walmart, Home Depot or Lowes. They are significantly thinner and less substantial.

 

[BernardSmith]

Not sure the issue is only the thickness of the walls but the material the walls are made of. Water is not the same as alcohol and in the presence of alcohol (and the acids of the wine) many plastics will leach chemicals that can be both a health risk and even when not can create off flavors in your wines. IMO, containers used for water are not designed for aging wine

 

[winepittsburgh]

Plastic carboys will work but they really are kind of lame compared to the glass ones. In my experience they are flimsy and you can accidentally squeeze wine out or suck air in when moving them. You can get some glass carboys and put them in milk crates to make them a little easier to move and less likely to break. Or put plastic carboys in milk crates to help with the squsszing issue. Aside from dropping or tipping over a glass carboy, it really should never break on you. Don't carry them full with those neck handle thingys either. The speidel fermenters are great for primary fermentation but not so great for long term storage. You can buy some time by topping with argon but it is an expensive solution to a simple problem.

 

[Killa J]

As it turns out, the 7.9 gallon Speidel holds close to 9 gallons when filled all the way to the top. So I would have been way too far off with 6 gallons and trying to add something to fill up the extra.

My carboys are Vintage Shop PET carboys, they seem decent. More flexible than I expected, so I will probably use milk crates to move them around. I’m not going to use water bottles, I think they are polycarbonate and potentially could have chemicals leached by the acid/alcohol combo.