Other Kit wine taste?

[tonyt]

KT definitely exists. Exactly what it is and the cause is still up for debate. It definitely gets less and less noticeable with time and is less noticeable overall in the better kits. A few of the kits we've made have lost the KT by 18 to 24 months. The biggest difference I find in tastings with both kits and commercials is that the kits lack nose, but often times have better overall flavor than many wines in the under $20 range.

Very well said Brian. Thakfully after several years of kit making I have enough wine bottled to not have toopen bottles for at least 18 months. But yes they almost all start out chemically if thats a word.

 

[scram]

I agree with the description of "chemically" tasting... It seems to subside after 12 months or so. I've never experienced a bubble gum flavor but do notice a chemical taste within the first year of aging...

 

[scram]

I've been thinking lately that perhaps the "kit" taste that many experience is mostly the flavor of a very young wine... Just a thought...

 

[jsiddall]

I've been thinking lately that perhaps the "kit" taste that many experience is mostly the flavor of a very young wine... Just a thought...

My oldest kit is now 27 months old and I can still pick it out in an instant. I have others at 25 months, 18 months, 12 months and 8 months. All are still improving but I don't think they will ever get to the point where I won't notice they are kits.

I also have some fresh juice buckets and grape wines and even right out of the fermenter they taste nothing like the kits.

That's my experience, but lots of people don't seem to notice or care about the taste.

 

[ceeaton]

I've been thinking lately that perhaps the "kit" taste that many experience is mostly the flavor of a very young wine... Just a thought...

Actually I agree. I was sampling a non kit wine I made, and a kit wine last night. The kit wine was about the same age and there is a more rough 'sour' component to it. I had that on the non-kit wine, but not as noticeable. Both wines were made in May of this year and are reds, so definitely very young.

I think also the concentration of the juice to make the kit alters the fermentable sugars in some way, it is a heavy taste component to me that masks some of the more subtle flavors. Not necessarily chemical tasting but different and not really noticeable in the non kit wine. Hopefully these masked flavors come out to play with age.

 

[GaDawg]

It's funny some taste kit and some do not. About a year ago we had a discussion that kits had an advantage over non kits and should not be judged together!

 

[ou8amaus]

Last night I was stabilizing a couple of cornucopia kits and noticed something interesting. The wine prior to any additions had very little smell to it. When I mixed the Kmeta and sorbate into water I gave it a whiff... And I did catch the raspberry plastic smell slightly... And after adding it to the wine, the wine definitely smelled strongly of it. Repeated process again but asked swmbo to confirm, and sure enough the raspberry component of KT only appeared after adding the stabilizing ingredients. I think KT may be a mix of smells/flavours... But that a component of KT definitely comes from sorbate. Easy to eliminate from dry wines but not so much from sweet ones.

 

[thruhike00]

Last night I was stabilizing a couple of cornucopia kits and noticed something interesting. The wine prior to any additions had very little smell to it. When I mixed the Kmeta and sorbate into water I gave it a whiff... And I did catch the raspberry plastic smell slightly... And after adding it to the wine, the wine definitely smelled strongly of it. Repeated process again but asked swmbo to confirm, and sure enough the raspberry component of KT only appeared after adding the stabilizing ingredients. I think KT may be a mix of smells/flavours... But that a component of KT definitely comes from sorbate. Easy to eliminate from dry wines but not so much from sweet ones.

Completely agree. I think the additives are responsible for the KT. I have stopped using completely and seeing how the kits finish.

 

[Bobster]

If your not using any of the additives will a wine filter remove anything remaining in the wine?

 

[barbiek]

I think the kit taste come from the sorbate and f pack I put 1/2 the fpack in upfront to boost Abv. This and I measure the correct amount of sorbate to be added after it has aged a while before adding the additional f pack. I let it sit a couple months after the sorbate addition befor adding the rest of the f pack. Seems to diminish the kit taste. I know kits have you adding the fpack emediatly after adding the sorbate but once you add the sorbate no need to add more. I think it's the combination of the f pack and sorbate is where you get the plastic or kit taste imho

 

[ou8amaus]

If your not using any of the additives will a wine filter remove anything remaining in the wine?

I do not think forgoing ALL the additives is a good idea. Depending on the kit you may still want to use the clarifying agents (especially with whites). I do not use them on reds as I age them enough that they clarify on their own. You will want to add the Kmeta. Leave out sorbate if wine was fermented dry and you are not back sweetening. Filtering will not remove active yeast unless you go down below .5 micron, but even then it will not "clarify" your wine. JMHO

 

[ou8amaus]

I think the kit taste come from the sorbate and f pack I put 1/2 the fpack in upfront to boost Abv. This and I measure the correct amount of sorbate to be added after it has aged a while before adding the additional f pack. I let it sit a couple months after the sorbate addition befor adding the rest of the f pack. Seems to diminish the kit taste. I know kits have you adding the fpack emediatly after adding the sorbate but once you add the sorbate no need to add more. I think it's the combination of the f pack and sorbate is where you get the plastic or kit taste imho

I think you are on to something there. I thought it was just the sorbate, but I have added sorbate numerous times in the past into white kits I was not going to back sweeten... and there was no KT noticeable. Mixing sorbate and fpack might be on the right track. Then again I have back sweetened dry wines in the past with homemade fpacks and not noticed KT, so perhaps there is something the MFR adds to the fpack that interacts with the sorbate? I usually add half the fpack into the primary, but I add the balance right after stabilizing (per the instructions). I have a few of these kits still lying around so will try your method of delaying sweetening with them.

 

[ou8amaus]

And to clarify, I am only referring to the plastic raspberry KT that I am getting from sweet low end kits. I also get a different KT from kits that is harder to describe, one that diminishes with higher kit quality, longer aging, various oaking, etc; but that is definitely present in all kits and is a smell/flavor I have never been able to completely eliminate.

 

[barbiek]

I think you are on to something there. I thought it was just the sorbate, but I have added sorbate numerous times in the past into white kits I was not going to back sweeten... and there was no KT noticeable. Mixing sorbate and fpack might be on the right track. Then again I have back sweetened dry wines in the past with homemade fpacks and not noticed KT, so perhaps there is something the MFR adds to the fpack that interacts with the sorbate? I usually add half the fpack into the primary, but I add the balance right after stabilizing (per the instructions). I have a few of these kits still lying around so will try your method of delaying sweetening with them.

Also I think they must put some kind of a preservative in.

 

[pokerinvite]

some in this thread have mentioned they add the f-pack to primary. why would one ever want to add a non-fermentable that contains sorbate and k-meta to primary? I imagine it's terrible for yeast health

 

[heatherd]

some in this thread have mentioned they add the f-pack to primary. why would one ever want to add a non-fermentable that contains sorbate and k-meta to primary? I imagine it's terrible for yeast health

The f-pack generally contains flavorings and sometimes sugars. It does not contain sorbate or kmeta. Adding some or all to the primary boosts ABV and introduces the flavors to the must. People who like a dry wine will often put all of the f-pack in primary.

 

[Tnuscan]

And to clarify, I am only referring to the plastic raspberry KT that I am getting from sweet low end kits. I also get a different KT from kits that is harder to describe, one that diminishes with higher kit quality, longer aging, various oaking, etc; but that is definitely present in all kits and is a smell/flavor I have never been able to completely eliminate.

Could you try to describe it, please??

 

[jsiddall]

The f-pack generally contains flavorings and sometimes sugars. It does not contain sorbate or kmeta. Adding some or all to the primary boosts ABV and introduces the flavors to the must. People who like a dry wine will often put all of the f-pack in primary.

It is possible the F-pack has some preservatives but in such small volumes it is not enough to cause problems. Keep in mind sorbate does not kill yeast, so especially if you add it part way through a healthy ferment it wouldn't cause issues.

Could you try to describe it, please??

I find it really hard to describe because it is an odd taste that doesn't taste like anything familiar. Terms that come to mind for me are "musty" and "raisin-y" (if that is a word) but neither of those truly describe it.

It is quite possible that other people taste other things in their kits but that is the thing that I get when drink kits. Compared to reductive-style grape wines the bright fruit flavors are missing from the kit wines.

 

[Tnuscan]

It is possible the F-pack has some preservatives but in such small volumes it is not enough to cause problems. Keep in mind sorbate does not kill yeast, so especially if you add it part way through a healthy ferment it wouldn't cause issues.



I find it really hard to describe because it is an odd taste that doesn't taste like anything familiar. Terms that come to mind for me are "musty" and "raisin-y" (if that is a word) but neither of those truly describe it.

It is quite possible that other people taste other things in their kits but that is the thing that I get when drink kits. Compared to reductive-style grape wines the bright fruit flavors are missing from the kit wines.

Could it be like a musty, sour like a damp, sweaty, old T-shirt or something of that nature???

 

[scram]

Smells more synthetic or medicinal to me... It does seem to fade with time