Other Kit wine taste?

[sgift]

I guess I started this particular thread..... I have no doubt there is KT. I am now at a year with several of my big reds and it, KT, is still there, with or without sorbate. I am now working with barrels and it improves but does not eliminates KT. I have barrel tasted several young commercial wines and do not find the 'bubble gum' taste. I think the idea that the common denominator is pasteurization is worth exploring and may explain this issue. Frankly the manufactures probably know exactly what's going on and don't want to share. If after 6-12 more months with this flavor profile present in my kit wines I will be giving up on kits. Disappointing!

 

[Boatboy24]

I guess I started this particular thread..... I have no doubt there is KT. I am now at a year with several of my big reds and it, KT, is still there, with or without sorbate. I am now working with barrels and it improves but does not eliminates KT. I have barrel tasted several young commercial wines and do not find the 'bubble gum' taste. I think the idea that the common denominator is pasteurization is worth exploring and may explain this issue. Frankly the manufactures probably know exactly what's going on and don't want to share. If after 6-12 more months with this flavor profile present in my kit wines I will be giving up on kits. Disappointing!

Don't give up on kits. Just give them more time. I was in the same boat a little over a year ago: ready to give up on kits completely. In recent months, I've gone back to some of my older high end kits and the difference is tremendous. Not only in the lack of KT, but in how much more they resemble commercial wines. Tannins have come forward, fruitiness has faded. Sure, they're very drinkable early on. But they will reward you if you give them time.

 

[sgift]

I am not giving up yet but do need to find some real varietal aromas and flavors soon in the reds I have made. Looking back on the last year I made 16 kits, 13 of them reds in a big range, at this point they all taste more or less the same, with only minor differences. I am hopeful that aging will change that......? I really enjoy the process but so far the product has not impressed me.

 

[jsiddall]

If I were you I would hold off making any more kits until you have waited long enough to know if you like them. My first kits are now 21-23 months old and only one has become enjoyable so far. I do expect them to all continue to improve for some time to come so the bottom line is you need patience.

 

[Boatboy24]

If I were you I would hold off making any more kits until you have waited long enough to know if you like them. My first kits are now 21-23 months old and only one has become enjoyable so far.

This may be a good time to begin the transition/experiment that I did two years ago with juice buckets and/or grapes. I continued making kits though, but slowed down just a tad. A juice bucket with a lug of grapes can make a pretty tremendous wine. Again though, patience pays off. Right now, I'm enjoying my first such experiment - a 2013 Chilean Carmenere that was a juice bucket with 18lbs of grapes added. It took 2 years, but it is quite good now, IMHO.

 

[pokerinvite]

is everyone experiencing KT using the typical champagne yeast (lalvin ec-1118) included in the kit?

anyone experience it with something like rc212 or bm4x4?

 

[pokerinvite]

100% 'Bazooka Joe'

what was your wine (or ambient room) temperature during the first 3 days of primary?

 

[sour_grapes]

is everyone experiencing KT using the typical champagne yeast (lalvin ec-1118) included in the kit?

anyone experience it with something like rc212 or bm4x4?

Yes, I get KT with other yeasts, including rc212, BM45, and D254.

 

[pokerinvite]

Yes, I get KT with other yeasts, including rc212, BM45, and D254.

interesting! at what temperature do you ferment your reds? (or what's your ambient temp)

 

[sour_grapes]

interesting! at what temperature do you ferment your reds? (or what's your ambient temp)

High 60's to mid 70's.

 

[sgift]

Temps same as Sour_grapes......do you have a theory?

 

[ou8amaus]

I was visiting a friend this weekend who had a long time ago sworn off kits due to KT... But he said he might just have changed his mind. He recently found a long lost bottle of Luna Rossa that he had made in 2010. He told me he was not expecting much, but that the all traces of KT were gone! It was dark red (surprisingly not oxidized after so long!), smooth, nice round tannins... basically a really awesome wine. Not sure if 5 years are necessary, but it gave me something to ponder as I too begin to think about making the transition to juice buckets / fresh grapes.

 

[richmke]

Not sure if 5 years are necessary, but it gave me something to ponder ...

When documented, a Bug can be a Feature.

Kit taste is a feature. It has been purposely introduced to keep the consumer from drinking the wine too early. The aged wine is better, and a better wine can justify a higher kit price.

 

[wineinmd]

Not that I don't believe you, but that is a very.... daring? strategy, especially considering the constantly shortening attention span of people these days.

If that were part of their strategy, I would think that they would mention it, or at least allude to it, in some of the literature. I looked up the Eclipse w/ Grape Skins instructions, and the only timeline it really gives is "Your kit will take approximately 8 weeks to produce."

You say that when documented, it can be considered a feature. Where do you see it documented?

 

[Dutch]

what was your wine (or ambient room) temperature during the first 3 days of primary?

Room temperature was 16 degrees celcius (60.8 F) and must got up to 23C (73F).

Last week I tasted a bottle of my first wine and the Bazooka Joe flavor was (allready) gone.
This was a low end kit with 7 ltr juice.

The second kit (a white bottled in may) is still pretty much undrinkable, but this could be due to other causes like extreme degassing (oxidation).

In the Kendrige Showcase 16 liter kits that are brewing now I left the sorbate out.
So far no kit taste detected.

 

[Dutch]

Not that I don't believe you, but that is a very.... daring? strategy, especially considering the constantly shortening attention span of people these days.

If that were part of their strategy, I would think that they would mention it, or at least allude to it, in some of the literature. I looked up the Eclipse w/ Grape Skins instructions, and the only timeline it really gives is "Your kit will take approximately 8 weeks to produce."

You say that when documented, it can be considered a feature. Where do you see it documented?

I'm pretty sure Richmke didn't meant it that serious

 

[wineinmd]

Ah. Never can tell.

 

[pokerinvite]

Temps same as Sour_grapes......do you have a theory?

Bubblegum & Banana type off-flavours are often the result of working the yeast outside (above) its ideal ferm temp. Lesser possibility is low nutrients

 

[fuse]

Kit taste is real. It is a result of the concentration process the kit companies use to make the juice.

"Bazooka gum" flavour is an excellent descriptor. That candy probably uses a similar technique to acquire its flavour!

Kit taste is NOT a result of sitting in the plastic bag (how many other foods are in plastic but do not have this taste?), aging (why don't young fresh grape wines have this taste? - although aging kit wines does lessen, or MELLOW, the taste to some degree), sugars (why don't my country wines have this taste?), or sorbate (that is a different taste altogether).

Best to just accept it, age the wines two years and be happy with a commercial Deep Purple concentrate (like Barefoot) clone wine.

 

[AZMDTed]

Fortunately, I'm not blessed with a great palate. I read some descriptions of wine and wonder how the heck do they come up with some of this stuff. I'm sure that being able to differentiate all the flavors is one of the joys of wine drinking, but in the case of KT I'm glad my taste buds are deaf. So I think I better stop reading about it before I talk myself into noticing it

I'm not denying that it exists for those who can taste it. My wife has a great palate, and her sense of smell is so acute that it's often a handicap when we have to sit next to people with perfume or cologne. But she can recreate dishes with just a taste or two of them. Amazing. For those who can detect KT I hope they find a cause and can correct it. For me, I'm happy among those who can't.