kit vs. juice

[Manimal]

Concentrates are used in some commercial wines, but personally, I choose to buy wines only from designated regions and produced according to the local appellation controls (DOC, AOC, VQA, etc.) all of which prohibit the use of concentrates as far as I am aware... call me a snob if you will, but I like the wine to be an expression of region and vintage. By all means, use a kit to start out and maybe you'll even get lucky and find a kit that suits your own tastes. Any and all experience is beneficial as you start out... it is all a learning experience and kits definitely allow you to minimize your investment while maximizing your learning curve. Just wanted to throw my own two cents in as to the difference between concentrates and juice as I see it.

 

[Omerta]

Thanks for the info! It helps a ton!

 

[Wade E]

Manimal, no ones going o pound you! Everyonr=e has their own opinion and are welcome to share and express their opinion. Im betting that you have tasted lots and mostly Winexpert kits as I feel the same about their brand with the KT(kit taste). I must say that it does mostly wear off with the extreme high end W.E kits but it is still there. I dont taste it in the RJS Winery Series kits and it is very limited and null in some of the MOsti kits. I havent made any Cellar Craft kits myself but have heard nothing but good things about them. I do not drink low end red kits.

 

[Manimal]

I would actually like to taste more of the higher end kits, but it's hard to make the commitment to spend more money on them when you haven't been entirely happy with the lower end of the spectrum. I'm particularly interested in the ones with the skins. I've mainly tasted Vineco and W.E. kits (and plenty of others that people made at ferment-on-premise locations but didn't remember the kit.) Right now I'm mainly making wines from either fresh Ontario juice in season as I live near Niagara, or Kamil Juices as it is flash pasteurized 100% European vinifera juice that hasn't been concentrated or had the acids manipulated, etc. Thanks for some suggestions on kits that I might enjoy... when my wife stops giving me a hard time about the number of batches I have on the go already, maybe I'll pick up one of the RJS or Mosti kits... RJS head office is located in Kitchener which is only about 20 min. from my house... I wonder if they have a retail store at their head office location?

 

[Wade E]

Too bad your over that border as I would have sent you a bottle to persuade you to some of these.

 

[Omerta]

I hope these two kits go well. I want to move on to juice asap. From what I am gathering you end up with a far superior wine. If I'm going to put effort into something (by effort I mean I become obsessed) I want the end result to be top notch. This "kit taste" thing is ruffling my feathers.

 

[cpfan]

I hope these two kits go well. I want to move on to juice asap. From what I am gathering you end up with a far superior wine. If I'm going to put effort into something (by effort I mean I become obsessed) I want the end result to be top notch. This "kit taste" thing is ruffling my feathers.

Have you personally experienced "kit taste"? Until you do, don't worry about it. Only a small percentage of folks notice it.

The wines from juice that I have tried have had different issues. The Pinoit Noir was very weak, but that was likely the brand and year. Reading on the forums, you get mixed opinions of the quality even when the juice is from the same supplier.

I'm not saying "don't do juice", I'm saying "it may not be better". Manimal is very "up" on the Kamil brand, but that it not available everywhere, and a couple of years ago, I heard some strong negatives about it from one source.

I live maybe 90 minutes from Kamil, so may try their product some time. There are no reds on the list that I would like to do currently. The Trebbiano is of interest, but I'm currently over subscribed on whites.

Steve

 

[Omerta]

cpfan: Thanks for the reassurance. I'll wait and see.

 

[Manimal]

I agree with Steve that you shouldn't worry about any adverse kit taste unless you personally experience it. Even if you aren't CRAZY about the resulting wine, at the very least, you'll likely end up with an enjoyable wine from the kit and will have learned alot in the process of making it. Juices are definitely a bit more variable and are not as much of a "sure thing" so are probably not the best choice for your first couple of batches, anyways.

I am definitely a big Kamil fan, mainly because they offer much of the same quality of in-season fresh juice but are available year round. You can order it online anywhere in North America, but I'm not sure about the shipping costs. But because the juice has not been extensively adjusted, there is likely to be variation from year to year, so I'm sure there may have been some juices that they have put out at times that weren't up to the same standard. Also, cold stabilization is an absolute must with their product unless you want heavy duty tartrates precipitating in your bottles!!

 

[cpfan]

Also, cold stabilization is an absolute must with their product unless you want heavy duty tartrates precipitating in your bottles!!

I was wondering about that as I read one of the descriptions on their web-site. It would be a good option for me late this summer or early fall, and then store in my cold room. Its 4C right now. We just moved to the house, so I don't know what it will be like in the summer.

How much time do you think these wines need?

Steve

 

[Manimal]

I'd say that any of the reds would benefit from at least a year of cellaring, and the full-bodied ones could go a few years, easy. But because they're hot pressed and not fermented on the skins, the tannin levels are still in the medium range so unless you added extra tannin, most would probably not have the guts to go much more than that. That being said, I haven't used their juice for that long, so I can't say for sure. The whites are pretty well good to go at bottling time, but they have a bit higher TA than alot of home winemaking products, so I'm sure they would last longer than many homemade whites.

 

[Wray]

kit taste

I read some where (probably Jack Kellors site) that when the grape juice is concentrated it produces a long chain glucose molecule that cannot be utilized by the yeast and is therefore left behind.Has anyone else heard if this is the case.I have been able to taste it, but only since I read the article! Power of suggestion?Has any one else heard of this?