Juicing 66# of Rhubarb

[beggarsu]

I started juicing 66# of Rhubarb last night. It's now 24 hours. I picked them last week.

I had them in my mini-freezer hand cleaned one by one after trimming then chopped and triple washed in cold water and them bagged and frozen. stalks of varying quality but kept nothing bad.
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I've been reading til I'm blue in the face and many things not really clear. The recipes all over really vary from 2.5# to 6# rhubarb per gallon of wine and it seems the juice extracted all depends on how much water is used to strain the juice and wash out the sugar - I'm using sugar to as apparently that helps the extraction.

I got no idea how many gallons of juice I will get - I guess it depends how much water I wash/rinse the juice out with.

I separated into three batches about 22# each - so I might do 3 X 5 Gal or 2 x 6 gallon batches. One I will spice with Ginger.

Porch where I defrosted them was 80 degrees today so I guess that will help - it was cooler there than my living room at times.

I don't know when to put in the campden (1 tab per gallon of juice) because all the recipes I read the method is either not clear or something is different.
And then some people don't use it all claiming the taste is changed.
But I think I had better do it considering the heat. Right now it's just rhubarb and juice in pails no strainer. I think I will separate each rhubarb batch from it's juice put the campden in the finished juice and the juice will drip into the finished juice with campden. because I think the campden is wasted putting it into the roughage?

All my equipment is sterilized - besides this I'm on my second wine kit (got one carboy in second stage and finished wine currently hiding from the heat under the porch (insulated sides) - lol).
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I'm only juicing because I don't know how much juice I will get and I can't start a ferment until annual heat wave is over - probably a few days it looks like now. When I want to use the juice I will add sugar and water to get desired SG and what size the batches will be will depend I guess on how I assess the quality of the juice.

I will start 1-2 batches later this week freeze the remainder and do the other batch or batches later.

Now maybe since I will freeze it I should not put in Campden until second defrosting and ready to ferment -IE "defrost - use campden - wait 24 hours start ferment".
But I don't know about three days without campden in juicing process-isn't that dangerous? Or not?


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I read this kind of juicing can be anywhere from one to three days - another cloudy issue, I think maybe I'll go 48 hours... plus + ? .. one straining a night.

OK - here goes - first straining - I'll now put the roughage from each pail into a strainer and start separating juice form roughage.

...Interval... didn't post this yet

Hmmmmp!

It's all still cold, shrunken juice come out but rhubarb is looking rather intact. I think it's too early to squeeze, it's too cold for bacteria - I think I'll mix in a little more sugar because I did not use a whole lot use it before , wait til tomorrow AM or evening and do the first squeeze then. Actually that will be 48 hours so maybe I'll do the squeeze and a couple of rinse out sugar/juice squeezes and finish it all at once.

As I understand it - using Campden is a pre- fermentation process IE later I should defrost juice - use campden, wait 24 hrs and start yeast ferment.
However since I am juicing with sugar for a 2-3 day process it seems maybe it might start fermentation from wild yeasts
Maybe I should put in Campden right now to prevent wild yeast fermentation?
But too much campden use is bad for the result, as I read.

Any opinion?
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Update: I figured it out. I did do a first pressing after all - very lightly took the stuff from each pail and pressed in a metal pot strainer. I simply put the pure barb juice in the fridge in sterilized 2 litre pop bottles.
Don't need campden - not until pre-ferment time. -it's going from fridge to freezer in larger containers til the weather breaks.

Got about 4 liters + from each of the three pails first light pressing. Didn't even need a cheesecloth at this stage. Layered back the barb in each pail with more sugar - added one liter boiled water to each - day 2 and day 2 + I will wash out the remaining sugar and barb juice and give it the iron press then freeze it all. The first press is very strong stuff _ I think willl make (3 times 5 gal) or (3 times 6 gallons). IE I will add sugar and water to each to make either 19 or 23 litres with SG 1.90.

 

[jensmith]

Add peptic enzyme first. It will help juice the rubarb. Also add the campton. Better safe then sorry. Generaly this is what I use, 18-20 pounds rubarb, 10# suger, 2 galleons water, per five galleon batch. Plus peptic enzyme, and tannin.

 

[beggarsu]

@Jensmith Thanks for the advice about peptic enzyme. I had already juiced it so I added it at start ferment time. Perhaps I don't need so much or need it so much a I have no pulp.
I'm not sure I want or need the tannin.
I have a packet of Spangols acidex but I don't know how to use it and can't find anything but directions which need calculus to understand and I know the fermenting needs the acid so if if I decide to de-acidify it will be at a later stage.

Your recipe sounds like you are fermenting with the pulp, because you only added 2 gal water so I don't think u got 3 gallons pure juice from 18-20 lbs rhubarb.
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I started my first batch fermenting about 2 days ago. This afternoon S.G was about 1.046 - starting SG was 1.092. Colour changed when it started fermenting and CO2 was a lot but very little froth on top, if at all. Stirring it occasionally now and when I do it really froths.


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I think the fermentation generates heat, Floating Thermometer was showing 80-82 degrees - I put the primary in the tub to cool it down (my cool water into the tub comes in at 8 degrees- very cold). Seemed to work I took it down to 75 which i think is OK.

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Sugar - I just added til it reached the S.G.

I initially had 3 batches of juice - the first one I stared with was from a weaker not so good patch - even the colour of the first draw juice of the weak patch as not as red as the others . After a taste test after adding water I had a feeling it was too weak so I decided I would make 2 batches of wine, not three - first batch 5 gal - second batch 6 gallons. So I took more juice from (batch # 2) dividing up all juice from all the 66 pounds into two batches first one 5 gallons wine , second one will be 6 gallons wine( I have carboys for each).

It was kind of tricky doing this adjusting - I drew off 1.5 gal of the weak stuff to mix with the 6 Gal batch eventually and put in 1.5 of pure juice from Batch # 2 juicing into the 5 gallon wine batch.

Tasted a lot better - but actually who's to know what the final result will be maybe what tasted weak would have eventually been a good taste.


About the juicing. Yes you need to put campden in it even if you store it in the fridge but not if in freezer. I don't think it's necessary to mix the campden i with the pulp and it won't distribute so I think just mix the campden in the squeezed juice.

I had 3 batches 22 # each. After 24 hrs defrost with sugar I did first squeeze, then 24 hours (add a little water , very little and a little more sugar) did 2nd squeeze and a few hours later 3rd squeeze - soaking with 3-4 litres water waiting and rinsing out remaining sugar..

Results For each batch: 4 litres on first squeeze, 4 on second and 3 -4 on third. So that is 2 gallons+ pure juice per batch and 3/4 to 1 gallon added water to wash sugar barb.

Using a steel pot straining flat bottom pot on top/inside of another pot Just lightly pressing with palms first time.

But second and third time I started to understand what grape stomping was all about, I ended up pressing with palms , mashing with fist knuckles and squeezing and wringing with with fingers over and over and over - it seemed endless seems I could do it forever - add and soak in water and then squeeze but I decided to cut out early.
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The barb hardly shredded except a bit towards the end and I only needed to strain the third rinse stuff that had a little bit of fluff though I put it all through a simple kitchen mess strainer.
I had the juice all marked and in pop bottles separated and marked just to analyze it but I eventually separated all into 2 batches each batch all mixed together - one now went to make 5 gal primary and the rest now in fridge in 3 gallon pails (with campden) will go to make 6 gal batch at the end of this week.


That was too much work, i'd rather have a juice steamer.

 

[jensmith]

Yup, 20 pounds of rubarb gives two good galleons of juice. Ten pounds of suger ups the volume by a galleon, so only two galleons of water are needed. I have fermented with just juice and pulp both. Same water added both times. However I usually end up with just under five galleons after racking. I do not top up. Yes I will get shouted at, but no problems with extra head space in over 50 batches. The only probelm wines I have had were with the ones with no head space. ( not related to head space ) the one wine I did top off changed the flavor to less nice.
No acid blend is needed with the barb, I have also not used any acid reduction. Maybe I just have balanced rubarb! Tannin is good however. It helps mellow the sharpness. Try one with to compare. Adding some white grape juice concentrate can mellow it as well, besides the yeast likes the grape juice.
This is my one wine I have had to use clearing agents one. I get greedy when squeezing the pulp and get too much something. The two part kisten thing works very well. ( I can't remember the name)
Peptic enzyme is best used. Even if you juiced the barb. Pectin is in the juice. However if you add the peptic enzyme 24h before juicing you will get tons more juice with little effort. Even if you froze it first, add the peptic enzyme as it thaws.

 

[beggarsu]

Yes, I already added the Peptic enzyme but it was after the juicing and the pulp was discarded.

I looked up tannin and I remembered what I was going to do but had forgotten. I made a cup of black tea for the tannin and added that.

I have a little over my 5 gal mark in the primary that was an accident I guess I can put the xtra in some bottle or something. It's still fizzing away and at 78 degrees.

In a couple of days (day 5 to 7) I'll probably rack to carboy, I need the primary for the second batch to start on the weekend.
Depends on the SG but I probably won't discard any lees for a while maybe give one month before do another racking and do discard of lees?, in order to continue to encourage fermenting.

I've read several pages where people said they don't de-acidify as it changes the rhubarby flavour. I got the acidex -I'll wait and keep tasting.

I'm not sure when to stop long term fermentation like they do in the kits nor what agent to use - sulphide or campden or sorbate? Or some kind of wine conditioner or preservative? I suppose at that stage I will have to do degassing like I did in the kits.


I got a spangols clearing agent that is supposed to be pretty good for fruit wines to use at at that stage. 'Sparkolloid'

Did you every try any spice such as adding ginger?

Thanks.

 

[jensmith]

More then five galleons to start is good. You will loose volume every time you rack. Especially the first time. Do try to leave as much of the sludge behind on the first rack. There will be more then enough live yeast floating in the wine to finish fermentation. Taking too much will slow the clearing down a lot! That sludge on the bottom has a lot of used yeast and rubarb particals. You can dump it in a skinny jar and let it settle. Then suck up the clear wine off the top. Or you can add your next batch of room temp rubarb juice to it and reuse the live yeast that got stuck on the bottom.
Let the wine clear in the carboy 1-2 months before racking it off the yeast cake. When all the suger has been eaten the yeast will go dorment, or get alcohol poisened. No need to try to stop fermentation, it does not work well anyway. After the sg has stayed the same, and is bellow .995, you can taste it and decide if you want to backsweeten in. At that point you need to add campton and sorbate to keep the yeast dorment.
I have never needed to degass my wines. They do it themselves with plenty of stirring in primarry and then a long rest the the carboy. Maybe someone else can chime in if you need advise on degassing.
Ginger is nice! I am having a glass of my ginger, cranberry, agave wine right now! I like the rubarb so well as is I have not tried spicing it up. However I do make mixed fruit wines and will add just about any fruit that comes to hand! I do have a rubarb, cranberry, banana going right now. It is just a little heavey on the banana for me. It may get tweaked a bit!

 

[beggarsu]

Or you can add your next batch of room temp rubarb juice to it and reuse the live yeast that got stuck on the bottom.

Good idea - I'm making second batch in the same primary right after this batch. I'll take it out early and adjust to room temp then put it in the primary as soon as I rack the first one. I think I'll ,make a yeast starter too did that last one - works really well.;.

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I got one 12 gallon primary with various levels marked by myself and two carboys. This is all I want/need for this summer. I also got various pails , 2 are 5 gallon (#2 HPDE) for various transfer around etc.

I'v read the lees at the bottom is very active yeast or even the most active and the advice is - if most of ferment done - leave it behind but if have to transfer for some reason and still expect a lot of fermentation take it with.

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So you do 1-2 months in Secondary (carboy) and how long in primary usually?



SG right now is at 1.014 lots of fizz still.

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My friend said he loved the rhubarb wine only did the process one month - but maybe he was not so gourmet - but I will try to get the best taste.

 

[jensmith]

The leftover yeast sludge is already a starter. If you want to give it a bost just add water, suger, and nutriants to it a few hours or a day before adding the juice. You will have a rip snorting starter in no time!! I often use yeast energizer instead of or in adition to nutriants. The yeast needs the extra help with the rubarb.

In primary about a week. Often I let the sg get down to 1.000. If it ferments too fast I may snap a cover on the pail and airlock it with the fruit in it, just so it gets full contact for at least 5 days. I have had wines ferment compleatly dry in just a dew days!

 

[jensmith]

I have been known to drink my wine within a month! Not bottle, but I do like the taste of a still fermenting wine and have drank my small carboy dry before it ever reached botteling age!

 

[saramc]

beggarsu....info on Acidex use here, http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/acidph.htm but it is only used preferment--the info provided via link explains why.

 

[beggarsu]

beggarsu....info on Acidex use here, http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/acidph.htm but it is only used preferment--the info provided via link explains why.

Thanks, however I don't see anywhere there that it says is is only used pre-ferment and I've seen other instructions that it can be used pre-bottling or after fermentation - just as it says on that page that calcium carbonate is.
The information only mentions something about testing a portion of the juice pre-ferment. Standard acidex is only calcium carbonate + something else - no reason it can't be used as calcium carbonate - just that it is more expensive.

Also my computer can't read that name "ACIDEXâ" - it might be the value added acidex (Acidex+ ?) a new product which is somewhat qualitatively different.



Acidex is calcium carbonate + something else. The wine store here only sells acidex and says people use it on fruit wines though theoretically it is designed for grape wines, The extra ingredient in acidex is just superfluous in fruit wines I think.

I woudl not mess with de-acidification pre-ferment without an accurate reader or any reader-tester as fermentation needs acid to happen and there is a chance of wiping out the acid as I do not have an acid measuring tool and the store doesn't sell them.
I would simply use acidex as potassium carbonate using standard rhubarb recipes as per how much people use.
That is - if I use it - a lot of people say they don't bother adjusting the acid - I think at bottling time I will set aside a small portion as a test for de-acidifying and see how I like the difference.

 

[beggarsu]

I have been known to drink my wine within a month! Not bottle, but I do like the taste of a still fermenting wine and have drank my small carboy dry before it ever reached botteling age!

lol your basement must be full of carboys, milk jugs and whatever.

by end august I will have made 115 bottles of various wines if I don't make any more and I just started in Mid may, not that I will have 115 bottles left though....

 

[saramc]

Thanks, however I don't see anywhere there that it says is is only used pre-ferment and I've seen other instructions that it can be used pre-bottling or after fermentation - just as it says on that page that calcium carbonate is.
The information only mentions something about testing a portion of the juice pre-ferment. Standard acidex is only calcium carbonate + something else - no reason it can't be used as calcium carbonate - just that it is more expensive.

Also my computer can't read that name "ACIDEXâ" - it might be the value added acidex (Acidex+ ?) a new product which is somewhat qualitatively different.

The funky character is a typo I suspect, though I have been told 'Acidex O' in the detail from first link refers to original Acidex, the same product previously referenced which info via link says "Before fermentation a portion of the juice is treated wherein all the acid is removed and then added back to the rest of the juice. Do not use this procedure on wine, as the portion treated will have a pH close to 8.0 and the wine will oxidize irrespective of its SO2....". Acidex is simply a brand name product for calcium carbonate based double salt product. A very good detail here, http://store.homebrewheaven.com/mobile/acidex-2-oz-p105.aspx

Here is info on a double salt product containing Potassium Bicarbonate and Potassium Bitartrate called 'Acidex Super K'.. http://www.fallbright.com/acidexsuperk_instruct.htm which is typically used postferment and requires cold stabilization.

But anytime you start messing with adding deacidification chemicals you really should have a test kit, available online for $6-10.

 

[beggarsu]

"Before fermentation a portion of the juice is treated wherein all the acid is removed and then added back to the rest of the juice. Do not use this procedure on wine, as the portion treated will have a pH close to 8.0 and the wine will oxidize irrespective of its SO2...."..

Yes this makes no sense - a portion is not all of it and you don't de-acidify the whole thing - that's not the idea.
and acidex is for grape wine only - "don't use on wine"?
This is just something about testing - not relevant and not clear.
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Other webpages indicate Acidex is used either before or after fermentation.

I don't see any problem with using acidex as simply calcium carbonate - the other ingredient is for grape wine and simply has no effect on fruit wine and I think it can be used for rhubarb without getting a fancy tested - eh acidity is pretty standard for rhubarb with some standard deviation - just follow popular recipes is my idea. After fermentation anything is correctable - acid can be put back in.

Anyway thanks for the research _ I can still use the results tables there to decide how much acidex to use in my test bottles/portions.

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Yeah i can get that acid thingme next year - i don't usually "do online".