Other Juice buckets vs premium wine kits

[TommBomb]

Can someone explain why juice buckets are ( if indeed they are ) a better product than a premium kit? I'm talking an RjS EP or a WE eclipse kit. I'm
Interested like many of you to improve the quality of my wine and would like to know your thoughts.

Thanks in advance

 

[Bartman]

It depends entirely on the quality of the juice. You will have to be more specific abut the brand/source of the juice buckets. Some juice buckets, I am sure, are not better than premium kits. Juice buckets typically have less processing than kits, are not pastuerized and may be more 'open-ended' for the experienced winemaker. Some juice buckets are simply reconstituted concentrates, so they are not worth their weight.

I have found that Mosti's Chile Fresco juice buckets (haven't tried the Sonoma edition yet) make as good a Carmenere as I have tasted either commercially or from kits. Better than most, if not all, the Carmeneres I have had - fruitier, richer. Your mileage may vary of course.

 

[Rocky]

Tomm, I am not sure they are better but here are some considerations.

If you are talking about juice buckets from Europe, California or South America, for one thing they are much the better cost. I can buy these buckets here in Ohio in prices ranging from $45-$60, depending on the source and the variety. That is as much as 1/3 the price I have seen for EP and WE Eclipse. With such a price advantage, I can add grape packs (if I can find them), raisins, fruit purees, fruit bases, etc. and still be far less than the premium kits. I have generally had good luck with the juice buckets but I do find that their vary in consistency from year to year (as one might expect from the different vintages). The premium kits, on the other hand seem to be balanced or normalized by the manufacturers so they seem more consistent from kit to kit and year to year. I have not made an EP or an Eclipse but I do have an Eclipse Zinfandel on deck.

There is one other, somewhat controversial issue that has not been definitively proven but has been alleged in several place that I have read. That is, some companies selling an "all juice" bucket are really selling one of their lower priced kits with the water added. I have made a couple of "all juice" buckets and I find the wine to be very thin, somewhat like a less costly kit. While this is not definitive, it does support this contention.

I am not sure that any of this has helped you with your question. I have made what I feel are very good wines from both premium kits and true juice buckets. When I speak of a juice bucket, I mean the ones that are kept refrigerated or buckets of juice directly from a vineyard. I am dubious of those that are kept at room temperature.

 

[TommBomb]

Thanks that does help. Appreciate it

 

[cpfan]

Can someone explain why juice buckets are ( if indeed they are ) a better product than a premium kit? I'm talking an RjS EP or a WE eclipse kit. I'm
Interested like many of you to improve the quality of my wine and would like to know your thoughts.

Thanks in advance

TommBomb:

I have only made one juice pail, and that was a number of years ago. It was a pail from California. I did not like it at all. I felt that it was weak in colour, and flavour. IMO, you didn't need a premium kit to be a lot better than that pail.

Obviously, other folks here are reporting much better results with juice pails. So I will echo Bartman's first sentence "It depends entirely on the quality of the juice". The kits are very consistent one year to the next, the juice pails are not necessarily.

Steve

 

[Pumpkinman]

Tom,
In my opinion, the pros and cons are:
With juice buckets you get more direct input in the wine making process, from selecting yeast to MLF, but, you need to be very diligent to test and make additions to the wine.
With kits, it is basically all thought out for you, and you follow a step by step set of instructions, most do not deviate from them.
Most kits claim that you can drink them in 6 to 8 weeks, but I would age them much longer.
I've made both kits and juice buckets and I prefer juice buckets, I like making the decisions, I feel this is how I can improve, by trying different techniques.
If you are going to get a kit, do yourself a favor and get the better kits, the ones with grape packs and less water to add.
This of course is just my opinion.
Tom

 

[TommBomb]

It would seem like there would be a lot more flexibility with juice buckets. But the final product is what is equally important, in my view is the final product. If the bar for juice buckets are higher than eventually I would like to experiment with them. As if right now my two EP kits taste very good and there barely a month old. I think that by a year it would be better than any store bought wine I've boughten in the last few years, although I never was one to buy expensive bottles in store. By reading joes thread on good wines gone bad there is alot u can do by thinking outside the box. Two different ways to get to the same end. Ill have to see about these juice buckets and try it but fir now I'm really enjoying making these premium wine kits

 

[TommBomb]

Lol sorry for the terrible grammar and spelling, lol I'm using my iPhone and it would seem I'm not well adept at it .

 

[the_rayway]

I'm going to try a Tosca bucket for the first time this fall, and the write up says: "23 litre pails of 100% premium quality certified and inspected 1st run wine juice." That sounds ok to me...I'm hoping it will at least live up to the red kits that I've done thus far. And at $55/pail, it's hard to go too wrong (I hope).

Dad and I are going to buy two of the same and tweak them differently as per Joe's "good wines gone bad" thread ideas. He just likes to have a really good red to drink, and I want to experiment. Great partnership if you ask me.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Rocky, I agree 100%, the "all Juice" buckets are a cheap kit, stay away from them!
After reading bzacs posts, I think that I am going to purchase one or two lugs of grapes, crush and de-stem, then fill gallon Ziploc freezer bags, about 5 lbs each, and freeze them, when I make a batch of wine, juice bucket or kit, I'll pull one or two out, thaw it and add it to my must, you can't get any fresher grape pack than that...LOL!

 

[Boatboy24]

Tom: love the idea of creating your own grape packs. I did my first buckets this spring, and added a lug of matching grapes to each. In my view, there are a few advantages to that: 1) you get an extra gallon or so of wine for top ups and sampling, 2) your juice buckets get the bump in color and tannin from fermenting on skins.

The jury is still out on them, as they haven't even been through a barrel yet, but I think I'm going to like them a lot.

 

[Rocky]

Rocky, I agree 100%, the "all Juice" buckets are a cheap kit, stay away from them!
After reading bzacs posts, I think that I am going to purchase one or two lugs of grapes, crush and de-stem, then fill gallon Ziploc freezer bags, about 5 lbs each, and freeze them, when I make a batch of wine, juice bucket or kit, I'll pull one or two out, thaw it and add it to my must, you can't get any fresher grape pack than that...LOL!

Tom, I was thinking about getting a couple of lugs of Cabernet Sauvignon, de-stemming them, crushing them into a stock pot and cooking off about half or more of the water. I would then cool them and pack them in either freezer bags or vacuum pack them. What do you think about cooking them down to concentrate the flavors and color? Thanks.

 

[Gwand]

Rocky, what companies would you recommend for quality juice buckets realizing there's year to year variability. Thanks.

 

[Boatboy24]

Hey Gwand:

There's S&S Wine Grapes right in Baltimore. Just a bit north is Harford Vineyard. I got Chilean buckets from Harford in the spring and will get some California or Italian from them this fall.

Jim

 

[Tess]

Rocky, I agree 100%, the "all Juice" buckets are a cheap kit, stay away from them!
After reading bzacs posts, I think that I am going to purchase one or two lugs of grapes, crush and de-stem, then fill gallon Ziploc freezer bags, about 5 lbs each, and freeze them, when I make a batch of wine, juice bucket or kit, I'll pull one or two out, thaw it and add it to my must, you can't get any fresher grape pack than that...LOL!

great, I just bought my first two

 

[Gwand]

Thanks Boatboy. Who knew. A brew shop in Columbia, MD is pushing Vino Superiore. Expensive as high end kit. Anybody know about this product.

 

[Boatboy24]

Thanks Boatboy. Who knew. A brew shop in Columbia, MD is pushing Vino Superiore. Expensive as high end kit. Anybody know about this product.

The juice buckets I've seen are all around $50.

 

[Rocky]

Gwand, here is the company that I use most of the time. If you go to their website, select "juice & grapes", then "current juice order forms." On that page you will see a button for California and Italian juices. I have used both and as I have said, had mixed but not bad results. I have also used a company called "Regina" out of California with the same results. http://luvabella.com/

 

[deboard]

I like the juice buckets, I got two last year, a Petite Sirah and a Chateau Neuf du Pape. Both have turned out good. To me, the buckets are more fun because you have more control. Also, the price is a lot better than a high end kit. Truthfully when I buy a kit that costs 140 dollars or more, I don't feel like risking it by tweaking it too much.

For my two buckets, I left the Chateau Neuf Du Pape as it was since it was a blend already. For the Petite Sirah, I made a 14lb grape pack. My Norton vines got hit by frost last year, and only a few vines produced anything, and then it was a small amount. All together I managed to get 14 lbs from 10 vines. So I made a grape pack for the Petite Sirah.

I don't think I'll have the chance to get any this year, I traveled over an hour to get them last year, and it was kind of a pain since those buckets are full to the brim. I haven't even heard from the place that got them last year, so they may not be doing it this year. Since beer brewing has taken off so much recently I see a lot of places reducing their wine making supplies.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Rocky - I think cooking it down to concentrate the flavors is a great idea! Rocky, I've actually been thinking about trying to slowly dry several lugs to achieve an "Amarone" or "Valpolicella" type wine, I just cannot figure out which grape varieties would come close to the Corvina , Rondinella, and Molinara varieties.

Tess - Don't worry, you can make great wine from these All Juice buckets, it will just take time, from everything I've heard, you really need to age these a few years for them to reach their "stride". I really think that following Joeswine tweaks would be very advantageous to these particular kits.

Deboard -

To me, the buckets are more fun because you have more control. Also, the price is a lot better than a high end kit.

I could not agree more! Bummer on the buckets being so far from you, Although I have M&M grape Juice just over an hr from me, I would love to meet up with everyone at L'uva Bella, I've heard nothing but great reviews of the place, the products, and I would get to meet some of you guys and gals in person....unfortunately, I believe it is just about a 12 hr drive each way.