Jim's foray into gluten-free brewing

[jswordy]

In an effort to reduce the amount of joint pain and swelling I experience long-term when drinking beer, I have received a Brewer's Best Gluten Free beer kit and I hope to boil an altered version of it on Saturday or Sunday.

This is an interesting kit mix, with two cans of white sorghum "malt," a pack of Golden Light Candi Syrup and 8 ounces of maltodextrine. It uses multiple Cascade hop additions and a spice pack for flavor.

I have read that white sorghum beer is really light and often turns out bland (think Bud Light), so I am going to go off the recipe and oven-roast 2 pounds of sorghum grain, then steep that 20-30 minutes before starting the recipe to add a more Euro beer-like roasted flavor.

Other than that, I'll stick with the recipe. Should turn out darker than spec but citrusy due to the Cascade (so far my favorite hop).

Every single commercial gluten free beer I have had has left quite a bit to be desired. Maybe I can start here and play around and find something uniquely more beer-like.

If there are brewers lurking who have done one of these kits or experimented with gluten-free, please pass along your wisdom here before I start.

I'll post in this thread as I go...

 

[wineinmd]

My neighbor did a very similar kit a couple weeks ago. Very straightforward. I don't think he's tried it yet, but I can check.

The recipe section on HBT has a GF section, with recipes for different styles. I'd consider reading some of the popular ones and seeing if they have anything in common.

 

[Elmer]

Never tried Gluten Free.
However I agree with you Cascade! it has turned out to be one of my favorite hops, next to Citra. I have even ordered 2 rhizomes of Cascade/Centennial.

My only advice on disguising light or bland beer is to consider dry hopping. I dry hopped a light beer and it added a extra level of flavor that hid the blandness!

Best of luck!

 

[BernardSmith]

Also not tried gluten free but I did experiment with teff and sorghum to make a t'alle or Ethiopian beer - That beer uses honey - and gesho for hops. Now, in truth, I also used some barley malt for the enzymes to convert the starches in the sorghum and teff to sugars... but the beer was quite drinkable.
Given that you have syrup then there is no need to add enzymes to convert the starches but what you might do is make a loaf from sorghum and bake it at about 300 C (very low)... then when sorta kinda baked crumble the loaf into your kettle with the syrup and hops etc. That baking will malt the grains and the bread may itself add more flavor

 

[cmason1957]

I actually made this beer back in Feb. I think it was. One of my Brother-in-Laws does the gluten-free thing. My wife and I were doing some stuff down in the wine area yesterday and happened to pull one of these out for me. It wasn't my favorite beer, but it wasn't horrible. I could see drinking it, if you had to. It was a bit more than a Bud Light, but not significantly so.

 

[jswordy]

I actually made this beer back in Feb. I think it was. One of my Brother-in-Laws does the gluten-free thing. My wife and I were doing some stuff down in the wine area yesterday and happened to pull one of these out for me. It wasn't my favorite beer, but it wasn't horrible. I could see drinking it, if you had to. It was a bit more than a Bud Light, but not significantly so.

Yep, I wish I was just doing "the gluten-free thing," but my joints ache like hell after drinking regular beer. A few bottles and I'm good for a week or so of gout-like aches and pains.

I love beer, and used to drink it freely, but it's pretty amazing what you find out about how food makes you feel when you do elimination diets to see. Lots of folks think they suffer from arthritis or old age, or in the case of dairy and eggs, sinus allergies. So they hit the pills. I was fortunate to be able to actually find out what it is.

Your point, "I could see drinking it, if you had to," is why I gave up beer years ago for wine. But I'm playing with brewing, so thought I'd try to see if there's anything I could do to make this very meh beer style something better than taking medicine. The way it's going, I'm eventually going to have to quit brewing if I don't find a low gluten/no gluten alternative.

 

[jswordy]

That baking will malt the grains and the bread may itself add more flavor

I would like to know more about this, since my understanding is that to malt grains, you have to sprout them, dry them, then roast them. I could do that with the sorghum grains, but simply roasting is less hassle and a good starting point for an adjunct.

 

[olusteebus]

Is it anything like red bridge, a gluten free beers made by anhieser

 

[jswordy]

Is it anything like red bridge, a gluten free beers made by anhieser

I have had quite a few of those. They are OK. There are others that are better, but none that hit the spot.

 

[jswordy]

OK, I'm going about my research in a different way, by looking up gluten-free grains and then seeing if beers are made from them.

This sounds intriguing...

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=185852

 

[BernardSmith]

I wish I knew more about microbiology and chemistry but I am not certain that you need to sprout grains to convert the starches to sugar - a) specialty grains are not I think sprouted but make use of the enzymes from the mash.. and b) drinks like k'vas are made from rye bread and again I don't think the rye would have been sprouted. What the sprouting does is optimizes the production of enzymes but I think the heat itself and the mashing (or steeping in water) is enough to convert some of the starch to sugar and extract that sugar... I was assuming that the syrup you had would have enough sugar for the wort so the purpose of making a loaf was to add more complexity to the flavor... But in truth I plead ignorance...

 

[the_rayway]

Speaking from very limited experience, and some research I've done over the last couple of years, the big grains for gluten free brews seem to be: chestnut chips, millet, GF oatmeal, and various types of rice.

The more sophisticated the GF beers get, the less they use sorghum because of the *twang* it leaves behind. I seem to remember that there was a company that was roasting GF malts (rice and millet?) to several different levels as well. They have a thread on HBT as well.

I did this particular kit, and was happy that it gave me beer to drink, but disappointed in the metallic taste from the sorghum. When I drink it, I add a few slices of citrus to the glass, then pour. I was a fan (pre-gf) of nice, malty, roasty beers, and really liked my reds. As I move forward, I will likely try to find recipes that will bring me those qualities as I find that my ciders give me the 'light beer' flavour profile just fine.

Just my couple of opinions, puttin' em out there

 

[jswordy]

I wish I knew more about microbiology and chemistry but I am not certain that you need to sprout grains to convert the starches to sugar - a) specialty grains are not I think sprouted but make use of the enzymes from the mash.. and b) drinks like k'vas are made from rye bread and again I don't think the rye would have been sprouted. What the sprouting does is optimizes the production of enzymes but I think the heat itself and the mashing (or steeping in water) is enough to convert some of the starch to sugar and extract that sugar... I was assuming that the syrup you had would have enough sugar for the wort so the purpose of making a loaf was to add more complexity to the flavor... But in truth I plead ignorance...

Actually, you quite succinctly summarized a debate that is ongoing for several years in the brew forums. No one seems to have the definitive answer. There is a practice of adding some unmalted grain into malted grain in conventional brews to heighten enzyme action, and there is some evidence this applies to G-F grains, as well.

 

[jswordy]

Speaking from very limited experience, and some research I've done over the last couple of years, the big grains for gluten free brews seem to be: chestnut chips, millet, GF oatmeal, and various types of rice.

The more sophisticated the GF beers get, the less they use sorghum because of the *twang* it leaves behind. I seem to remember that there was a company that was roasting GF malts (rice and millet?) to several different levels as well. They have a thread on HBT as well.

I did this particular kit, and was happy that it gave me beer to drink, but disappointed in the metallic taste from the sorghum. When I drink it, I add a few slices of citrus to the glass, then pour. I was a fan (pre-gf) of nice, malty, roasty beers, and really liked my reds. As I move forward, I will likely try to find recipes that will bring me those qualities as I find that my ciders give me the 'light beer' flavour profile just fine.

Just my couple of opinions, puttin' em out there

You like the same kind of beer flavors that I do. Fortunately, I can get my hands on some of these high-dollar "boutique" grains at true wholesale. I think the quinoa recipe has a lot going for it, and even though it is a tremendous amount of work to do it from scratch, I would like to try bag brewing it while making the necessary adjustments for 60% efficiency.

I also am looking at roasted and/or malted buckwheat to impart some of these flavors at a later stage in my G-F brewing development, should it continue. I'll start with the kit, maybe add some ReaLemon or ReaLime to it based on a bench test on transfer to secondary. Thanks for the idea!

 

[BernardSmith]

But you can sprout and or/ oven roast your own grains. If you sprout the grains I think you want to allow them to sprout until the roots are the same length as the grain itself (perhaps 4 or 5 days max). You germinate the grains in the same way that you would make sprouts (soak for 12 hours, drain, re-soak for a minute, drain, repeat until the seeds/grains have sprouted (I generally sprout vertically in mason jars with bean sprouting lids but I guess maltsers sprout horizontally on trays)
You then dry the sprouts at about 100 F for 24 hours and that makes the removal of the roots relatively easy (rubbing in a bag) and then you can kiln the grains at about 150 - 200 F (or grind and bake them in a "bread")

 

[jswordy]

But you can sprout and or/ oven roast your own grains. If you sprout the grains I think you want to allow them to sprout until the roots are the same length as the grain itself (perhaps 4 or 5 days max). You germinate the grains in the same way that you would make sprouts (soak for 12 hours, drain, re-soak for a minute, drain, repeat until the seeds/grains have sprouted (I generally sprout vertically in mason jars with bean sprouting lids but I guess maltsers sprout horizontally on trays)
You then dry the sprouts at about 100 F for 24 hours and that makes the removal of the roots relatively easy (rubbing in a bag) and then you can kiln the grains at about 150 - 200 F (or grind and bake them in a "bread")

Thanks. I saw most of that elsewhere, too, except rubbing off the roots. What I have read so far is they seem to just sprout and dry them. Quinoa will sprout underwater, they say, and supposedly it sprouts shoots before roots; some guys just fill a 5-gallon bucket and leave it in the tub, use the shower on cold to wash every 8 hours. I really want to try the quinoa beer, but 5 gallons takes about 6 pounds of grain. That is quite a bit of work to process.

For this kit recipe, I think I am going to dark-roast my sorghum grains (which I now have received), holding back ~ 1/3 pale, then mixing and lightly crushing with a bread roller. We are only looking at 20 mins, 30 tops as an adjunct, so I think a paint bag dipped like a tea bag for the duration in ~ 158 degree water will do it if things don't get too oatmeal-like. Do you think the openings in a nylon paint bag are too large?

The kit comes with a Whirlfloc tablet, which I have reservations about since reading the news that Irish moss and its derivatives contain cancer-causing agents, but I will likely go ahead and use it this time.

I'm speculating that this will result in a darker-hued beer, maybe medium hue, with a more roasted flavor than the kit would have afforded. It gets me out of adding enzymes this time around, which I apparently will have to do when making quinoa or other all-grain GF beers.

BTW, here's the HBT pic of that 100% quinoa beer made in 2010 that I posted the link to earlier. Doesn't it make you want to try some? It does me!

 

[wineinmd]

I did some reading on the irish moss causing cancer thing the first time I saw that on here, and as far as I can tell they are talking about a derivative of the substance, and a degraded version of the substance at that, it was only found in rats, and only when they were fed a very large amount of the stuff daily.

There does seem to be some evidence supporting a possible link to inflammation from carrageenan, but that link has not been proven, and the potential risk is lessened due to the fact that irish moss contains things other than carrageenan so its presence is diluted. In addition, almost all of the irish moss falls out of solution, so you're not actually consuming the product itself.

In short, I would not worry about getting cancer from irish moss. There is no scientific evidence to support the theory in humans. At worst, you'll get an upset stomach if you drink a signficant amount of beer each and every day.

 

[jswordy]

I did some reading on the irish moss causing cancer thing the first time I saw that on here, and as far as I can tell they are talking about a derivative of the substance, and a degraded version of the substance at that, it was only found in rats, and only when they were fed a very large amount of the stuff daily.

There does seem to be some evidence supporting a possible link to inflammation from carrageenan, but that link has not been proven, and the potential risk is lessened due to the fact that irish moss contains things other than carrageenan so its presence is diluted. In addition, almost all of the irish moss falls out of solution, so you're not actually consuming the product itself.

In short, I would not worry about getting cancer from irish moss. There is no scientific evidence to support the theory in humans. At worst, you'll get an upset stomach if you drink a signficant amount of beer each and every day.

If you're happy with it, go for it. Back in the 1980s, that's basically what they said when most commercial wine was filtered through asbestos. Unknown to many, the wine industry was one of the last to clean up the asbestos in its act.

One of the chief sources of carrageenan is "Irish moss," which is actually a red algae. Carrageenan is 55% of Irish moss. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chondrus_crispus

Here is the derivative carrageenan link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrageenan

Article:
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA401181/Is-Carrageenan-Safe.html

Research paper:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1242073/

See the selected references in that paper for additional applicable research papers.

I would note that carrageenan is being removed from cosmetics and supplements by reputable companies so fast it will make your head spin.

I've also been told that research shows chitosan won't cause shellfish reactions, but I know that to be untrue by experience. And behold, there is a clinical trial underway: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02151279

 

[BernardSmith]

I really want to try the quinoa beer, but 5 gallons takes about 6 pounds of grain. That is quite a bit of work to process.

I suspect that 5 gallons will require about 12 pounds or more of the grain unless quinoa has more fermentable sugar than other grains. I certainly assume that I need about 2.5 pounds of Maris Otter grain per gallon (although about 1 lb of extract will raise the gravity of water by about 36 points (so perhaps 1.5 lbs extract/gallon and so about 7.5 lbs for 5 gallons

 

[jswordy]

I suspect that 5 gallons will require about 12 pounds or more of the grain unless quinoa has more fermentable sugar than other grains. I certainly assume that I need about 2.5 pounds of Maris Otter grain per gallon (although about 1 lb of extract will raise the gravity of water by about 36 points (so perhaps 1.5 lbs extract/gallon and so about 7.5 lbs for 5 gallons

I have an unorthodox plan. Two, actually. We'll see which wins out. Sure have had fun with it so far. Have not lifted a finger, and look at all this info!