Is lemon juice or another acid necessary for elderflower wine? If so then why is that?

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Quacker

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Is lemon juice or another acid necessary for elderflower wine? If so then why is that?

I tried to make elderflower wine according to a recipe, but the fermentation keeps stopping, despite adding a very good yeast and daily agitation so I thought I'd try another batch minus the acid.
 
Acid corrections are often needed in non grape-based wines to get the pH into a "good" range of 3.1 to 3.7 that allows the yeast to thrive while also being low enough that sulfites are effective. The acid corrections will also importantly affect the wine's TA, which is how acidic your mouth perceives the wine. Your choice of TA will dictate how tart or flabby the resulting wine will be and drive any final sweetening decision.

So to answer to your question, the acid is likely necessary since I'm guessing an elderflower wine does not bring sufficient acid by itself. However, it is possible that too much acid was added and the resulting pH was so low that the yeast struggled. I'd suggest you measure the pH, preferably with a calibrated meter or using pH strips if you don't have a meter.
 
Hi Quacker, Agree with jgmillr1 but you say that you are making this elderflower wine to "a recipe"... could you share the recipe? The problem may not be the fact that you added lemon juice. The problem may be that the recipe has its own problems. And even better than providing us with the recipe as you received it, could you perhaps provide us with the recipe (ingredients, quantities) and processes as you applied them? Again, the recipe may be questionable but the processes you used may also be the source of your trouble.
 
Thanks so much for the replies. I think we have worked out the problem. I added ascorbic acid instead of citric. I doubt if there is anything I can do to save it?

That said, I have learned a lot from your replies, Is the calibrated meter to which you refer a hydrometer? We're intending to buy one soon.

Thanks again for your help. If you know of a way I can save the batch to use as a cooking wine, please let me know.
 
Thanks so much for the replies. I think we have worked out the problem. I added ascorbic acid instead of citric. I doubt if there is anything I can do to save it?

That said, I have learned a lot from yOur replies, Is the calibrated meter to which you refer a hydrometer? We're intending to buy one soon.
,
Thanks again for your help. If you know of a way I can save the batch to use as a cooking wine, please let me know.
for the acid question, they are talking about a PH meter, a cheap one runs around $10 to $15, a hydrometer is a glass (most times) sealed tube with a scale inside of it, it reads your specific gravity or SG,, make sure the hydrometer you get is for wine/beer and not spirits, on it you look at what percent ABV you want then add sugar to the corresponding SG reading. it sounds complicated, but once you get one and read the post how to read a hydrometer, you'll see it is very simple, i try to do semi-primitive country wines, these others on here will know way more on types of acid and what to do, i'd not throw anything away till they tell you your options, good luck,,,
Dawg
 
Your original post is a day ago, you are early in the fermentation, therefore it is easy to add acid and sugar and yeast nutrient. The break point is when there is bacterial growth and it smells bad or tastes bad. Ascorbic acid is reactive, , , goes away in an air/ oxygen environment , , , so adding it isn’t an abort sign. I have added ascorbic into grandpa’s dandelion wine recipe and it didn’t help or hurt. (as a flavor retention chemical)

Elder flower “tea” by itself has no nutritional value much the same as dandelion flower tea or pine needle tea and the Yeast will starve. You could use any of the EC Krause dandelion wine recipes on the web to provide nutrients/ acidity/ sugars to grow the yeast.

In a recipe acid functions as a flavor, so you need enough to balance the sweetness from alcohol. As @jgmillr1 notes there is a normal since acid also acts as a preservative (like it does in pickles)
Thanks so much for the replies. I think we have worked out the problem. I added ascorbic acid instead of citric. I doubt if there is anything I can do to save it?
 
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Thanks very much for those replies. Should I be buying both a hydrometer and a PH meter in order to make a better attempt at a flower wine?

It's great to know that I need not discard the batch. It smells and tastes fine - just needs to ferment for longer. Many thanks for your encouragement, Rice-Guy.. I'll have a read of the dandelion recipes about feeding the yeast, and decide what to do next. Perhaps flower wines just ferment at a slower rate than fruit ones
 
for those who make wine by the numbers I did a 50% distilled water elderflower tea last night: 1.018 gravity
pH 6.28
TA 0.17%
flavor: unusual, hints of tannic ripe berries, earthy notes, basic flavor reminds me of silage, the wife smelled it and wouldn’t taste it, smell not fruity or floral, unusual
 
Sorry to be dense: What was the other 50% composed of?
I recon elderflower tea, which gives me a thought, now and then i make sassafras tea, i doubt it will taste good but for shits and grins , i think i'll make a very small batch of sassafras wine. since i got a 5 gal carboy, i'll get me some sassafras roots,,,, i think i can find enough small trees, i leave sassafras trees alone they are flying squirrels favorite tree, most people never see flying squirrels since they are nocturnal ,
Dawg
 
Hi again, thanks for the other replies. I'm updating to say that the elderflower wine restarted fermenting on its own that evening with no extra help, and it already tastes lovely. I'd started a second batch, so I added the lemon juice, which killed the fermentation, but adding some wine-making yeast seems to have done the trick.

I had wanted to experiement using the natural yeasts on the flowers, so it's possible that those yeasts require a less acidic mix. I think my problem is that I am used to wines which ferment very quickly initially, and that was the first batch I've had which had a lanquid start.

Many thanks again.
 
Quacker, don't bother about cooking wine. All the top Chefs and Cooks will tell you, "Don't cook with wine you wouldn't drink.".
Rice_Guy, am I right in assuming you actually used a gallon of Elderflowers? If your Elderflowers smell the same as the ones in UK - I know ours is a different variety - Ooooh, no wonder your wife said it smelled like Silage. The number of elderflower wines I've tasted over a good many years, well a lot of them smelled as though that Tomcat from down the road had been paying it's compliments. Judging Country wines at several local shows, any wine labelled as Elderflower was left till last just in case.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong in your case!!!

Regards to all, Stay safe!!!
 
There are several different kinds of "elderflowers" and elderberries and some are toxic and some smell like urine. You do not want to use the fruit (or flowers) from the poisoned tree or the flowers from the tree that smells of cat pee.
 
I'll tell you what else works , a pino grigio infused with elderberry either dried flowers or seeds.
Do it before and was outstanding and easy.
 
Thanks so much for your amusing replies. BernardSmith - worry not. My elderberry trees smell gorgeous! The garden is filled with their delicate fragrance at the moment, and they're definitely edible and delicious. No cat pee, thank goodness.

Winemanden.. Our intention in beginning our current splash into wine-making was to make wine to cook with, but we keep drinking it! We haven't managed to make an undrinkable batch yet, but there is yet time. ;) Don't worry though - no wine need go to waste. If it's not good for cooking, we can save it for unwanted guests. :p You obviously know a lot about wine-making. I don't trust some of the online recipes - I think they'd turn out too sweet for me, but I need to learn more about how to use a hydrometer, so I am not floundering in the dark.

JoesWine.. thanks for that suggestion. I'll maybe try a grape/elderberry blend sometime.

Thanks again for the banter and all the advice.

N.B. Apologies for any confusion caused by me editing this after posting it. Having posted that a mango wine we're fermenting is horrid, I decided to taste it again and realised that it is now delicious, so I have cut out that comment.
 
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Bernard, I didn't mean to say that UK Elderflowers smell like Cats pee, just that used in excess or left in the must too long it gives that impression. Having said that, some bushes do smell different to others. The old-timers used to say to pick the flowers from the whitest bush - I'm an old timer myself, but before my time.

I visited Albany NY in 2000 but never got up to Saratoga Springs. Is that white horse there in Saratoga? It looks a lot like the one in North Yorkshire.
 
Thanks so much for your amusing replies. BernardSmith - worry not. My elderberry trees smell gorgeous! The garden is filled with their delicate fragrance at the moment, and they're definitely edible and delicious. No cat pee, thank goodness.

Winemanden.. Our intention in beginning our current splash into wine-making was to make wine to cook with, but we keep drinking it! We haven't managed to make an undrinkable batch yet, but there is yet time. ;) Don't worry though - no wine need go to waste. If it's not good for cooking, we can save it for unwanted guests. :p You obviously know a lot about wine-making. I don't trust some of the online recipes - I think they'd turn out too sweet for me, but I need to learn more about how to use a hydrometer, so I am not floundering in the dark.

JoesWine.. thanks for that suggestion. I'll maybe try a grape/elderberry blend sometime.

Thanks again for the banter and all the advice.

N.B. Apologies for any confusion caused by me editing this after posting it. Having posted that a mango wine we're fermenting is horrid, I decided to taste it again and realised that it is now delicious, so I have cut out that comment.
i've used wine to cook with, but after i get good and buzzed i burn the food, lol
dawg
 
. . I didn't mean to say that UK Elderflowers smell like Cats pee, just that used in excess or left in the must too long it gives that impression. Having said that, some bushes do smell different to others. The old-timers used to say to pick the flowers from the whitest bush . .
a second look at elderflower, this time a wild variety collected in a wet area, and again a tea made with 50% distilled water/ 50% flowers (post #9 above was a domestic large berry variety from Edible Landscaping):
pH 6.06; TA 0.14%; gravity 1.013. . . ie numbers similar to domestic, no yeast nutrition

Flavor: it has a floral front with some bitter/ tannic note,,, there is another element which gloms on the taste buds and lasts, after an hour I can still taste it
Aroma: floral, hints of vanilla, attractive, unusual, I don’t have a similar food reference, no hint of cat pee.

when I pulled this plant I smelled first, it was floral/ attractive,,, and rejected another plant which was by a construction gate, that one I would describe as dairy/ butter notes, not floral
 

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