Idiot-proof wine making method failed (again)

[danlong]

I have this idiot-proof method of making brew. It would be an insult to actually call it "wine" but it is supposed to idiot-proof the wine-making process so that we have something alcoholic available that isn't loaded with sulfites (commercial wine) or whatever goes into commercial beer (the local Taiwan Beer contains formaldehyde).

I buy grape juice from the store, pour out a little so it doesn't spit bubbles all over the place, pour in some wine yeast, cap it loosely and put a condom on top of it as an "airlock". That's it.

The juice is *supposedly* sterile when purchased and nothing, not even the funnel comes in contact with the juice. Should be fool proof, right? In fact, historically, it has been fool proof as i have supplied many parties with "Dragons Grape Brew" in the past. But more recently....

I have seven bottles of rotten grape juice, one bottle of vinegar, and another bottle that looks like it's going the same direction the other seven are going (i started it after the first 8 failed). The first 8, i didn't use a condom, i just kept the cap loose enough to let air escape but tight enough so that the pressure in the bottle was higher than outside. Clearly, this didn't work since one had enough oxygen to turn to vinegar. After that failed, I used the condom airlock on the last one which is starting to show the same problem.

The ones that didn't turn to vinegar have this distinctive smell that i have smelled in many of my previous failed wines. Both my wife and I described it as a "medical" smell. The failed brews that develop this problem also exhibit floating white particles that accumulate at the surface.

My idiot proof method has been infiltrated by an idiot (me) and it is driving me crazy. More importantly, there is no way I could ever graduate to anything resembling REAL wine if i can't even get sterilized juice to ferment into alcoholic substance.

If you have any inkling of a clue how this could have happened (over and over and over and over), please let me know.

 

[jojabri]

Oh dear! You are seriously gonna get hit with some comments. My best advice is:

Do yourself a MAJOR favor and invest in a few airlocks, bungs, and a most importantly a hydrometer.

My guess would be that air is getting in after active fermentation has slowed down. Secondly I can only assume you are using bakers yeast? It works, but really you should use a yeast that is specific to wine making.

A lot of liquor stores (if you don't have a home brew store) will have a section that sells these items. In my area, I get airlocks under a buck bungs for about $1, yeasts from 50 cents-$1, and a hydrometer under $7.

These tools are seriously INVALUABLE.

 

[peaches9324]

get rid of the balloon and use a drilled bunge cost no more than .79 and an airlock cost about the same. And was the jug you were using clean and sanitized? Make sure to clean and sanitize the bunge and airlock also by using cleaner and sanitizer especially formulated for wine making equipment not dish soap. And if you get hooked which I think your already hooked, get a small brew bucket or get a BPA, DEHP, and Plasticizer Free bucket for fermentation and you'll also want a hydrometer for this first successful batch and you might want to think of purchasing a small end wine kit, most people get started with making a kit, some only use kits, some use fresh fruit, that's how I got started. You can make the wine in a gal jug like you proposed to do, don't know much about that I always have used a "primary bucket" or fermentation bucket. And welcome to the forum! If you have any questions please ask, some one is on here to answer your questions almost always good luck! And pictures would be nice to see what you have going now.

 

[peaches9324]

Gina you were quicker on the draw than I was

 

[jojabri]

Gina you were quicker on the draw than I was

I stay up late waiting for the hubby. Taking a break after finishing building my wine rack, and racking the wine... haha! Just happened to catch it. Either way, I think we said essentially the same thing. With exception of the kit thing, as I have yet to do a kit. (Sticking mostly to inexpensive stuff such as DB variants, frozen concentrates, and experimental stuff {skittles, candy cane, coffee}, until I have a bot more experience under my belt)

My first couple batches (which turned out poorly) were similarly made before I read up on the process. I kinda feel where danlong coming from.

A few upgrades, and the realization that the bug had bitten, and I'm rarin'-to-go!

That being said danlong, with a few upgrades, you can be super sucessful too!

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Sounds like someone is poking holes in your rubbers, better be carefull or you are going to have a lot bigger problem! Why not just step up and learn how to really make wine? WVMJ

 

[Boatboy24]

Not knowing what your ABV is, I'm going to assume it's pretty low, since you didn't mention adding sugar to the juice prior to fermentation. A low alcohol wine with no added sulfite is just inviting an infection. It seems not using a condom has also contributed to the infections. I guess they really do work!

As Gina stated, you'd be well served to "invest" in a hydrometer and a few stoppers and airlocks. In total, all of these would cost only ten or twelve bucks. Then you could be sure that "bugs" aren't getting into the wine, and you can measure your SG to determine alcohol levels. If you're not using sulfite, a higher alcohol level will be needed to protect the wine.

Welcome to WineMakingTalk!

 

[JohnT]

A note on why..

Just to focus on the reasons for all of the above good advice...

The issue you have is that your wine goes bad over time. Let us just focus on that for a minute.

In wine, there are several components that aid in protecting wine from spoilage....

Most important is PH. A rather high acid environment helps to create an environment that is unfavorable to most bacteria. A PH of 3.4 (or acid of 6.5 grams per liter) is generally preferred for red grape wine.

Another great contributor is alcohol level. Alcohol levels of 12 to 14% also help protect the wine.

Sulfites are used in winemaking as a sanitizer or cleanser. They are also added to wine to help protect it. Most people fear sulfites, but they are really quite harmless and are not as heavily used as you might think. A standard application is just 1/4 teaspoon to a 5 gallon batch and doses of sulfites are usually expressed in terms of parts per million.

Wine is also kept cool (ideally 55 to 65 degrees). This also helps protect the wine.



Now lets apply this to your situation...

The main issues I see you having is that you are using juice that is meant for drinking and not fermenting. Wine grapes run around 22 to 26% sugar and are like eating candy (at least to me). I am willing to bet that your juice has a lot less sugar and will not produce a high amount of alcohol.
Additionally, your juice probably does not have enough acid.

Another issue I see you having is that you are in Taiwan. I assume that it is warm there and your wine is not being stored at an appropriately cool temperature.

Another issue is that you are avoiding the use of sulfites. I can understand this, but have to say that you do open yourself to problems like the ones that you are currently experiencing. I am not saying that success is not possible without sulfites, all I am saying is that your success is at risk.

At a minimum, I would advise you to measure and adjust your sugar (using a hydrometer) and acid level (using your acid test kit). I would also advise that you get a decent airlock and stopper (about $2 usd).

I hope that this encourages you to continue making wine and helps you succeed!

 

[BernardSmith]

Hi Danlong - Welcome. A few thoughts - for what they are worth.
I guess I agree with what everyone on this forum has said: the only idiot proof method to make wine is to use good wine making techniques and equipment. But let's assume that for one reason or another you are not able to do that. What then is happening with your grape juice? So a couple of questions:
What is the caloric value of the juice? From that you an calculate the amount of sugar that can potentially be fermented. There may be too little to prevent spoilage.
What other ingredients are in the juice? Some of these may have been added to give the juice a longer shelf life and they may be creating problems for the yeast.

You say that you use a condom in lieu of an airlock. I am less concerned about that than the others who have responded. BUT it is not entirely clear from your post that the condom is in fact expanding because of the CO2 being expelled from the wine. Is it? If it is not - and a pin hole will NOT prevent the device from filling with CO2 because the amount of gas that enters the condom in any period of time will be far greater than the amount of gas that can leave through that hole in the same period - then there may be something in the juice to inhibit or prevent fermentation. By the way, if you are using a condom as an airlock then you don't need to use a cap
Wine does not automatically become vinegar. And contact with air does not transform alcohol into vinegar. Air oxidizes wine (like rust) - and discolors it (makes it brownish in color) and spoils the taste. For vinegar, the wine needs to be infected with a particular type of bacterium. These bacteria are often carried by fruit flies, but you may be inoculating your wine with these or other bacteria if you make your wine close to an area where other kinds of fermentation is taking place - kombucha, or kimchi for example. You can carry the spores on your clothing or in other kitchen tools and so you may be inoculating your wine without realizing it. The "sterility" of the juice won't prevent other spoilage organisms from taking hold and the environment that the juice provides may be more favorable to these organisms than the yeast you pitched

 

[Noontime]

All really great points...the sugar level was particularly insightful. I think your logic is flawed about not advancing to "real" wine making until you do better with your current procedures. If you use appropriate containers and ingredients, and sanitize properly you'll see a huge difference in quality. One thing I'd like to comment on is the temperature someone else mentioned. Although fermenting and storing wine in a hot area is not ideal, it certainly doesn't create huge problems either. We've been making wine in S. Florida (house temp fluctuates between 78-82F) for about 8 years, and have made some fantastic wines. The major issue is the wine's life span is reduced... our wines reach their peak at about 2 to 3 years and are starting to go downhill by 4 to 5 years old. Good luck!

 

[garymc]

I hate to have to be the one to mention this, but the condoms should be new, unused ones.

 

[jethro]

Next time, you gotta add sugar & dissolve it before you add the yeast. The yeast turns the sugar into alcohol. The alcohol keeps the bad microbes from growing in the must. Ask these guys how much sugar to add. They'll tell you to buy a hydrometer. This is a gauge that measures a higher number the more sugar you add. Then as the yeast turns the sugar into alcohol, the number on the gauge measures lower. Very handy tool.

 

[JohnT]

I hate to have to be the one to mention this, but the condoms should be new, unused ones.

< I just threw up in my mouth a little >