Identification

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Eric W

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Hello,

I had posted a few days ago about what I thought was “flowers” in my wine during secondary. I listened to the advice and added some k-meta and racked, cleaned, sanitized etc.

I’m still curious to know if anyone can help me identify what is in the picture. Thankfully the wine in not impacted and tasted wonderful.

The home brew store near me (extremely nice and knowledgeable) couldn’t identify which makes me even more curious.

This is in 4 out of 14 carboys - all 2 months old - been racked once and before this no additives minus yeast. Everything was new and cleaned and sanitized with one step and star San before use. Valpolicella and some Pinot N were impacted. Note, I did top off with the valp so I’m assuming it may have originated from there. (Not certain)

Thank you in advance!

Eric
 

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Rice_Guy

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We can not give a organism ID from a picture, this would require culturing on selective agar in the micro lab. If you have access to a 500x microscope you could narrow down what genus the shape resembles.
We however can say what organism is typical for that level of oxygen/ level of alcohol/ presence of sucrose or lack of sucrose/ pH/ presence of SO2
 

salcoco

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the first trigger for flowers of wine is oxygen and improper so2 addition due to ph levels. with the small amount of air space on your carboy oxygen seems to be not the problem unless your air lock is leaking badly. I would check your ph and see if you are adding the right amount of so2 versus ph. the higher the ph the more K-meta. Glad you did not have major problems. if ph is correct don't know what it is.
 

Rice_Guy

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pH is a preservative, ,,,, ex my intent with the current 8.5% OH apple bubbling in the garage is to give it about 20 or 30 grams of acid per 6 gallon, when it gets down to 1.005, ,,,, to kill the fermentation (target pH 2.9)
the first trigger for flowers of wine is oxygen and improper so2 addition due to ph levels. with the small amount of air space on your carboy oxygen seems to be not the problem unless your air lock is leaking badly. I would check your ph and see if you are adding the right amount of so2 versus ph. the higher the ph the more K-meta. Glad you did not have major problems. if ph is correct don't know what it is.
 

jgmillr1

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pH is a preservative
Not by itself. Remember that lemon juice will still grow mold and go bad. And lemon juice has a pH of about 2.4 with an TA of 55g/L! Retail lemon juice usually has sodium benzoate preservatives added.

Certainly for pH < 4, the liquid is not able to support dangerous micro-organisms. This is why the health department gives wineries a pass on concerns with botulism. However, the lower pH does amplify the preservatve effects of sulfites. Regardless, without sulfites the wine will oxidize too.
 

balatonwine

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I have had this happen a time or two, and I racked, tested and added needed Sulfite, and it did not come back. Always a late stage issue. IMHO (i.e. zero experimental evidence), these small colonies happen and grow on some flotsom from the small remaining lees at the bottom that bubbles up during degassing and has enough nutrients to sustain the colony.
 
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