I have two quick questions!!

Wine Making Talk

Help Support Wine Making Talk:

Cxwgfamily

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
87
Reaction score
32
I have two questions I hope will be easy answers and not controversial. they are:

1) I have made several batches that have a residual sulfur smell and taste. I the smell and taste will go away over a long period of time. My question is, a) how to remove the taste quicker, if possible. I know the best thing to do is to prevent it from occurring and i am working on that.
b) I think the smell and taste comes from the fact that I adding 200 oF sugar dissolved in water to the fruit or juice. This brings the must up to 130 - 135 oF. Enough to sterilize the must. After cooling (typically 8 to 12 hours), I add one campden tablet per gallon and this may not be necessary because the temperature is doing what the campden tablets normally do. Thoughts on this theory??

2) What is the process after completing Malolatic Fermentation. I am trying ML fermentation on a couple of batches for the first time. Is the process the same?? Meaning, rack to a secondary and let sit for 30 "ish" days.

Thanks in advance for the feedback. This forum has been great in the past and the feedback has made me a better winemaker.
 

JohnT

Moderator
Super Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
10,014
Reaction score
5,772
1. splash rack your wine.

1b. It is more likely that this was caused by a lack of yeast nutrient.
 

dralarms

Overboard as usual
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Messages
3,689
Reaction score
1,414
Johnt is right, lack of nutrients and fermentation too warm
 

BernardSmith

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2011
Messages
3,485
Reaction score
1,731
Location
Saratoga Springs
Stressed yeast produce Hydrogen Sulfide. This can be caused by many things including insufficient nutrients (including nitrogen) and insufficient oxygen. it can also be caused (I think) if the yeast are subjected to too much physical stress as when there is too much CO2 trapped in the liquid and you are not degassing (by vigorously stirring a couple of times a day).

MLF is unlikely to occur spontaneously. You usually have to inoculate the wine with appropriate bacteria.
 

sour_grapes

Victim of the Invasion of the Avatar Snatchers
Joined
Sep 19, 2013
Messages
12,282
Reaction score
11,581
Location
near Milwaukee
Which kind of "sulfur smell" do you mean? Like rotten eggs (so hydrogen sulfide)? Or acrid, like a sulfite (from, say potassium metabisulfite)?
 

Tnuscan

Tnuscan=Tennesseean
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
975
Reaction score
328
Hello.
There should not be a need to heat the must to 135 degrees. And make sure your using Potassium Metabisulfite and not Sodium tablets. These two things are probably causing your smell issue. I'm betting it's the heat, but try both. And try to keep your Sg. between 1.085 and 1.095.

Adding a MLB to do MLF is usually done on wine from grapes. So make sure your fruit contains Malic acid to convert to Lactic Acid, or your wasting money and time, and you may be doing so anyway.

Try using Lalvin 71B-1122 yeast. This is from their description--{" Limits phenol extraction and may neutralize up to 40% of malic acid producing a smooth and rounded "nouveau" wines that will mature quickly".}
Hope this helps and does not cause more issues.
 

Cxwgfamily

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
87
Reaction score
32
All,

Thanks for the quick feedback!!!! I am constantly amazed at how helpful everyone is on the forum. I just hope some day I can repay other wine makers.

Just some feed back. I just tried a Peach / Banana batch that had that sulfur after taste after two months in the bottle. 99.9% of the taste was gone and the wine really has developed into a wonderful wine. I am sure it will get better with more time in the bottle.

Feedback on the comments I received.
1) yeast nutrients - I do add some yeast nutrients based on a recipe I found on line. I will play around with nutrient levels to see the impact. One of the responses was asking the type of sulfur smell / taste and it is a Hydrogen sulfide smell (Rotten egg smell).
2) splash rack my wine - I have been paranoid about oxidation so when I rack my wine, I am very caution to add the wine subsurface or very near the surface to minimize oxygen absorption. I will try splash racking. It could be the extra agitation will help the wine to release some CO2 as well.
3) I have increased the amount of stirring I do during primary fermentation. I do at least 2 stirrings a day and I stir till the foaming of the liquid is gone or at least greatly reduced. This has reduced the amount of degassing I have had to do in the secondary. But I will monitor this and even add a third stir event to my primary fermentation.
4) With regard to the heating. I heat my water addition to facilitate my dissolution of sugar. In an early recipe (it may have been for a batch of fig wine I made) it was highly recommended to heat the must to 130 - 135 oF for 2 hours as a way to sterilize the must from wild yeast and other organisms that might be present. By heating my water addition, the sugar goes into solution quick and completely and when added to the fruit, the contents are right at 130 - 135 oF. I just let this cool naturally and it usually take about 12 hours. Then I add the camden tablets (Potassium Metabisulfite). I will back off this heating as a way to eliminate the off taste / smell.
5) I am playing around with MLF as a way to add complexity to some of my wines. I am currently producing 6 3 gallon batches of a citrus wine and I am adjusting one parameter off of a base batch to see the impacts. Fermentation temperature (64 - 68 oF range and a 50 - 55 oF range), MLF at both fermentation temperatures and a different yeast from my usual. (I will definitely try the Lalvin 71B-1122 yeast. it sounds like it will help with what I am trying to accomplish).

Again, thanks a million.

Cxwgfamily
 

Stressbaby

Just a Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Messages
2,078
Reaction score
830
@Cxwgfamily,
In the preparation of some musts, it is OK to heat the water. Jack Keller does this with his country wines all the time. I agree with your theory - there is no need to add the initial kmeta if you have sterilized the must (or at least knocked back the wild yeast) with hot water. I've done this often without any notable problems. However, in every case I add kmeta when racking to secondary, or if I rack above 1.000, just a couple of days later.
Most people don't MLF country wines because in contrast to grapes, other fruits have more citric acid and citric acid + lactic acid bacilli -> diacetyl and VA.
 

Tnuscan

Tnuscan=Tennesseean
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
975
Reaction score
328
Yes, I see now, as Stressbaby I also have done this with the heated water. I have also warmed small amounts of blueberries, blackberries and such to make a syrup for flavor boost as in joes threads.(Tweeking)
There also are people that are cooking the fruit for like 30 minutes ( I think ) trying to Vat Pasteurize. I have heard this can ruin wines or they have funky to repulsive odor.

I feel some are getting confused and doing something like this:


Example:
[A: Low temperature pasteurization, also called vat or batch pasteurization, is one of several acceptable ways to pasteurize milk, a process used to kill harmful pathogens. It's clearly a safer choice than raw (unpasteurized) milk, which has been the source of numerous outbreaks of foodborne illness over the years.Dec 3, 2014
Low Temperature Pasteurized Milk | Berkeley Wellness
www.berkeleywellness.com/healthy-eating/food.../low-temperature-pasteurized-milk]

63ºC (145ºF)1) 30 minutes Vat Pasteurization

Anyway sounds like your having fun.
 

BernardSmith

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2011
Messages
3,485
Reaction score
1,731
Location
Saratoga Springs
Cooking the fruit simply sets the pectins (think, jam) and that gel will create a haze in your wine that will not be easy (read, near impossible) to remove. IMO wine making rarely involves heat (wine making ain't brewing) although there are members here who advise that you need to heat elderberries and I certainly make a tea when I make wines from flowers but fruit ain't grains and wine ain't beer.
 

Cxwgfamily

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
87
Reaction score
32
Stressbaby,
thanks for the feedback. I will adjust my procedure next time to see if the smell develops. I am "trying" MLF in conjunction with a 6 batch test I am doing. I did read where some citrus does have a small amount of lactic acid and "may benefit" from MLF. Thought I would try for my own education. also, you mentioned citic acid and lactic acid bacilli equals diacetyl and VA. Sorry for the ignorance, but what is VA short for?
 
Top