hydrogen sulfide problems in Chilean grapes

[joea132]

I tasted my latest batch of Bio Bio valley malbec and found a very slight odor of sulfide on it. I splash racked it over sanitized and scrubbed copper tubing and put it back in the stainless tank. Unfortunately it's still there and I have to go to plan B.

What bothers me is that this is the second time from the same grower in a row that I've had sulfide problems in my wine during the same stage. I did a Chilean carmenere last year and waited too long on the fix for sulfide so now I have a stinky batch of decent wine that I can't bring myself to throw away.

Has anybody else had a problem with Bio Bio valley grapes? I'm to the point where I feel like I don't want to buy Chilean again. I used D254 yeast which is a low sulfide producer and both times the problem came about after press and before the first rack. With the carmenere I thought I left it on the gross lees too long so with the malbec I pulled them off one week after pressing. I also used D254 successfully for California grapes in between Chilean grapes so I can rule out the yeast. My only idea is that it's the spray they use for mold on the vine.

My next move may very well be copper sulfate, albeit carefully. I just feel like I'm at my wits end here with Chilean grapes.

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

I am curious to know who supplied you with Bio Bio valley this year. There was a lot of rain there this season probably forcing a late sulfur spray. If there is no sun or heat after the application then it gets in the skins of the grapes and you deal with it later. I would say go with a treatment of ascorbic acid for 24 hours then follow it up the a healthy dose of Reduless for 72 hours then rack. Hold off on the Cuso2, you have time for that if necessary. Also getting it in a barrel can be very helpful. I would try this on last year's as well
Malvina

 

[joea132]

I tried to rinse them off this year and let them dry before crush to combat the issue. I know it's in vain because it gets in the skin.

I really don't want to use reduless, I found it takes out a bit of flavor but the copper and splashing did not fix it so I think I'm stuck here.

I got my grapes from M and M both times, I'm not sure who the grower is. I am seriously considering not doing Chilean next year because of this.

 

[joea132]

What dosage do you use for ascorbic and reduless Malvina?

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

What dosage do you use for ascorbic and reduless Malvina?

FOR 5 GALLONS
Rack the Wine Immediately and add 1/4 teaspoon of Meta per carboy.
After it is racked add 1 gram of Ascorbic Acid per carboy and stir in well.
After 24 hours add 3 grams of Reduless. per carboy Stir in well .
After 48 hours but no longer than 72 hours rack off Reduless. If you have a filter use it.
Wait 1 week to assess the results.

For those using Ascorbic Acid and Reduless without a gram scale
Here are the teaspoon equivalents.
FOR 5 Gallons
1/4 teaspoon perfectly level flat Ascorbic Acid
1 Teaspoon perfectly level flat Reduless
Do not estimate or exceed this measurement. use a knife to level the teaspoon

Malvina

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

I tried to rinse them off this year and let them dry before crush to combat the issue. I know it's in vain because it gets in the skin.

I really don't want to use reduless, I found it takes out a bit of flavor but the copper and splashing did not fix it so I think I'm stuck here.

I got my grapes from M and M both times, I'm not sure who the grower is. I am seriously considering not doing Chilean next year because of this.

Yes it does get in the skin and it happened in CA and in NY this past year. A friend who is a Commercial Winemaker was inspecting grapes he purchased from Long Island and he said he could smell the sulfur when holding a cluster in his hand. He made the grapes anyway and had a stink from the beginning to the end. CUso2 was used and only 20 % of the wine will be used to blend into other vats. In the beginning it was the shipping methods which was the problem with the Chilean grapes, but late rain and spraying is a problem no matter where the grapes come from. I saw some beautiful Chilean Santa Cruz grapes in a fermenter this year and they were beautiful. As it turns out they did not suffer from late rains as Bio Bio did.

I am sure you will get the problem resolved and you will have great structure in that wine even if the Reduless does not work and you have to resort to CUso2, as I made the Malbec last year from Bio Bio without any incident. At worst it will be a very good blender for structure even if you lose some of the fruit in the treatment.
Malvina

 

[joea132]

Thanks Malvina. I'll add ascorbic acid and reduless. I do have a filter so I might as well do that too. Do you think a rough filter is good enough or should I use finer pads?

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

1 micron is fine.
Malvina

 

[altavino]

before blameing your grapes , what was your nutrient regimne?

there was a letter in winemaker magazine on chilean grapes a while back that had a protocol of using optired and a good nutrient program / low h2s producing yeast followed by getting the wine off the gross lees within 12 hours ( how lonf did you leave it on the lees) . no pre or post fermentation macerations were reccomended.

I'm curious about the ascorbic and reduless addition.

I've used reduless before but it didn't mention using ascorbic acid in the materials I got from scott labs.

this is usually a cuso4 protocol.

I'd be inclined to leave out the ascobic and follow up the reduless treatment with nobless.

then if that didn't work use ascorbic and cuso4 as a last resort.

since this is just a slight odour a treatment of reduless alone should work.

I add it , stir the carboy up 3 or four times a day for 3 days then splash rack off the reduless.

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

before blameing your grapes , what was your nutrient regimne?

there was a letter in winemaker magazine on chilean grapes a while back that had a protocol of using optired and a good nutrient program / low h2s producing yeast followed by getting the wine off the gross lees within 12 hours ( how lonf did you leave it on the lees) . no pre or post fermentation macerations were reccomended.

I'm curious about the ascorbic and reduless addition.

I've used reduless before but it didn't mention using ascorbic acid in the materials I got from scott labs.

this is usually a cuso4 protocol.

I'd be inclined to leave out the ascobic and follow up the reduless treatment with nobless.

then if that didn't work use ascorbic and cuso4 as a last resort.

since this is just a slight odour a treatment of reduless alone should work.

I add it , stir the carboy up 3 or four times a day for 3 days then splash rack off the reduless.

Good Points but there is no question of late spraying in Bio Bio. And since they were late sprayed and assume a nutrient protocol was in order then that is the reason for the problem in this case. With regard to using Ascorbic Acid and CUso2 or Reduless. The same holds true for the same reason. Reduless has the copper in the compound. To be sure a 1/4 teaspoon of Ascorbic Acid in 5 gallons is not going to cause any negative effects and is insurance if mercaptans were on the way of forming so that combined with the Reduless should really do the trick.
Malvina

 

[joea132]

before blameing your grapes , what was your nutrient regimne?

there was a letter in winemaker magazine on chilean grapes a while back that had a protocol of using optired and a good nutrient program / low h2s producing yeast followed by getting the wine off the gross lees within 12 hours ( how lonf did you leave it on the lees) . no pre or post fermentation macerations were reccomended.

I'm curious about the ascorbic and reduless addition.

I've used reduless before but it didn't mention using ascorbic acid in the materials I got from scott labs.

this is usually a cuso4 protocol.

I'd be inclined to leave out the ascobic and follow up the reduless treatment with nobless.

then if that didn't work use ascorbic and cuso4 as a last resort.

since this is just a slight odour a treatment of reduless alone should work.

I add it , stir the carboy up 3 or four times a day for 3 days then splash rack off the reduless.

I'm at work and don't have my notes but if memory serves me correctly I added Fermaid K the day after pitching yeast and at one half brix. I had a fast fermentation, 7 or 8 days I believe. I got the wine off the gross lees in a few days I believe. Last year I did an extended maceration and left the wine on the gross lees for 2 weeks so I was careful to get them off quickly. I'm really not into using reduless but I'm going to add it at the lowest dose with ascorbic acid. Not looking forward to losing some of my good fruit flavor.

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

I think you are going to have to evaluate what is a "very slight odor". Many times a few rackings and doing nothing but allowing time to pass and the problem is gone without doing anything. If this is the case, then if I were the one making the judgement that is exactly what I would do and revisit the Ascorbic Acid / Reduless routine at a later date.
Malvina

 

[joea132]

I picked up some CuSO4 from the LHBS and made a 1% solution. Added it along with ascorbic acid to my Carmenere from last year and hit the maximum allowable dose with NO change in odor. I am writing off last years Chilean as unfixable. Down the drain it goes....What a sad thing to have to do for all my time and money invested.

 

[carmine]

I picked up some CuSO4 from the LHBS and made a 1% solution. Added it along with ascorbic acid to my Carmenere from last year and hit the maximum allowable dose with NO change in odor. I am writing off last years Chilean as unfixable. Down the drain it goes....What a sad thing to have to do for all my time and money invested.

My brother and I bought Malbec from M&M it was from the Santa cruz region no H2s smell grapes magnifecent. i also got a call from a local supplier back in end of June and he told me he has late season chilean grapes coming in he assured me that they were in great shape it was Sryha and I told them i would takethem They were magnifecent As soon as i saw the labels i new where they were from Santa cruz region again .They were bought from frank at M&M he didn't have to tell me i knew where they came from no mold what so ever I did notice some H2s when fermenting but I left the lid open and it blew off. I noticed more H2s when it went to secondary i racked again after 24 hours and it's gone I racked again the other day no H2s smell what so ever. Going thru Mlf just did a chromotography test waiting for the paper to dry.By the way do you have that Carmenere in a barell if you do you might have to empty that barell out and clean with Critic acid wash and then with a Kmeta wash that usually will get the smell out from Barell.

 

[joea132]

Thanks for all the input. I ended up putting in ascorbic acid and a half dose of reduless. I waited just over 48 hours and racked it off.

No smell and only the slightest loss of fruit. Overall I'm very happy with the outcome and glad I jumped on the problem quickly. I will continue monitoring into the future but I'm sure the problem is solved.

As an embarrassing added note I went to filter back into my stainless vat and broke my filter. I was pressed for time and didn't put the metal plate on the back of the Superjet filter and instead I cranked down on the plastic plate and cracked it beyond repair. Just goes to show you should never be in a rush making wine.

Thanks again to everybody for the input.