How strongly should wine be fermenting?

[mstrick96]

I started several small bottles of grocery store juice wine. 64 Oz bottles. I used Red Star Premier Cuvee and divided the yeast between the three 64 oz bottles. It's in a cabinet at about 70 degrees F. Specific gravity is 1.110 in two bottles and 1.12 in the third.

Today is the third day since starting and I am seeing some very fine bubbles all through the bottles, so it is fermenting. I was expecting it to be bubbling more strongly.

Are the fine bubbles a problem? Or perhaps they are desirable?

 

[oppyland]

There are some who say the relative speed of fermentation - either too fast or too slow - affects flavor of the wine. I'm not nearly experienced enough to know at which point it really makes a difference. I usually figure if it's bubbling and SG is moving I don't worry.

That being said, you should always try to ferment in stable temperatures within the range specified for your yeast.

 

[winemaker81]

I usually figure if it's bubbling and SG is moving I don't worry.

This is spot on. Every batch is different, some foam like crazy, others appear to be barely bubbling. Trust your hydrometer, as it will not lie to you.

 

[G259]

It sounds like you 'split' your yeast between these vessels. Yeast is cheap, don't do that, add more yeast to each vessel!

 

[mstrick96]

Yes, I did. The "recipe" I used called for 3/8 tsp per 1.5 quarts of liquid. I had some yeast left, so I probably used 1/2 tsp each. I think I'll let this batch go without changing anything so that I can see what happens. Worst case is that I'll learn something!

The other thing I did that might be a problem is that I added the yeast to the sugar and added it all to the liquid at room temperature, which was about 70 degrees. Then shook it all up to dissolve the sugar. I didn't activate the yeast first in warm water.

I'm going to try making some apple wine in a week or so using bottled juice. I'll try adding more yeast to that batch. I'll also try activating the yeast in warm water first.

 

[mikewatkins727]

This is spot on. Every batch is different, some foam like crazy, others appear to be barely bubbling. Trust your hydrometer, as it will not lie to you.

I agree with @winemaker81 in that every batch is different but I would add that the yeast is what is different in how it reacts with the must. DO TRUST THE HYDROMETER.

 

[Rice_Guy]

you should be saying thank heavens with small bubbles! Wines with a lot of solids will foam. Beverages with soap like polymers will excessively foam an then you need to take corrective action to stop the foam.
All this said, if you want a foam structure a whipped topping chemical like poly sorbate 60 would work wonders, when you do a wine with fruit pulp (choke cherry has been my worst) it will foam and having an extra third free volume helps. Some yeast produce mannans and have foam problems
To reduce foam, first trick is to reduce the temperature, with a fruit juice I like 55 to 60F. This is partly that I get better fruity aroma and partly I have patience, ,,, a few carboys to bottle yet. For your fermentation you are starting high on the percentage sugar. Most yeast will stop at about 14% ABV (bread yeast will stop at about 8% ABV). A must at 1.110 could turn into a 14.9% ABV wine with a strong yeast. Premier Couvee is rated at 18% so you will be making a high test wine.

I was expecting it to be bubbling more strongly. , Are the fine bubbles a problem? Or perhaps they are desirable?

Wine is quite forgiving, most of us have dealt with a vigorous ferment. I might use the term “survived” since there isn’t a lot to gain other than finishing/ drinking sooner.

 

[mstrick96]

Thanks everyone. I'll just have to wait to see how these turn out. I kept good records so that I can adjust the next batch.

It will be interesting to see if the Premier Cuvee performs as they advertise. I'm expecting these to end up pretty dry.

Time will tell!

 

[winemaker81]

It will be interesting to see if the Premier Cuvee performs as they advertise. I'm expecting these to end up pretty dry.

The OG you listed should ferment dry. You will find that most non-grape wines benefit from backsweetening, as bone dry they are astringent and unpleasant.

 

[mstrick96]

Thanks. I have been assuming that I would need to backsweeten.

If it does ferment dry, will the alcohol kill the yeast? Or will I likely need to do something else to stabilize it?

 

[winemaker81]

If it does ferment dry, will the alcohol kill the yeast? Or will I likely need to do something else to stabilize it?

Assume you need stabilization. Sorbate + K-meta

 

[mstrick96]

Thanks!

 

[Dan M]

The OG you listed should ferment dry. You will find that most non-grape wines benefit from backsweetening, as bone dry they are astringent and unpleasant.

I have "fermented to dry" everything I have made so far and back-sweetened as needed. I have seen some recipes that call for stopping the fermentation at around 1.000 to keep it sweeter. It seems that this will result in a lower %ABV and a softer mouth-feel. Does this have other effects on the taste and/or flavor of the wine? I like the higher alcohol content but am wondering if I'm sacrificing flavor?

 

[winemaker81]

I have "fermented to dry" everything I have made so far and back-sweetened as needed. I have seen some recipes that call for stopping the fermentation at around 1.000 to keep it sweeter. It seems that this will result in a lower %ABV and a softer mouth-feel. Does this have other effects on the taste and/or flavor of the wine? I like the higher alcohol content but am wondering if I'm sacrificing flavor?

Yes, stopping the fermentation (if you can) will result in a reduced ABV. I've not heard of this producing a softer mouthfeel. AFAIK, there's no significant difference between stopping a fermentation with residual sugar, and backsweetening.

Stopping a fermentation does not work as well as some believe. Sorbate does not stop a fermentation. Adding a spirit to jack the ABV above the yeast's alcohol tolerance will do it, as will abruptly chilling the wine down near freezing. However, the fermentation may not stop exactly where desired, and adding a spirit makes the wine a fortified one.

Keep in mind that Port producers have hundreds or thousands of barrels. They blend to get the desired residual sugar. Home winemakers do not have this advantage, although I supposed one could make 10 carboys of identical wine, and blend afterward.

 

[Dan M]

I've not heard of this producing a softer mouthfeel.

Maybe I'm misusing the term mouth-feel. I just bottled FWK Strawberry Frutta. In addition to a wonderful Strawberry flavor, it tastes very "strong", which I assume is due to the higher %ABV. Compared to a boosted Island Mist kit, which doesn't have that. It's not quite a "burn", but it reminds me of the first sip of a strong mixed drink. Does that make more sense?

AFAIK, there's no significant difference between stopping a fermentation with residual sugar, and backsweetening.

That's what I thought too. I just wanted to hear someone else say it! I'm currently making my first batch of Dragon Blood. When it got close to 1.000, I put the airlock in instead of stopping the ferm.

 

[winemaker81]

Maybe I'm misusing the term mouth-feel. I just bottled FWK Strawberry Frutta. In addition to a wonderful Strawberry flavor, it tastes very "strong", which I assume is due to the higher %ABV. Compared to a boosted Island Mist kit, which doesn't have that. It's not quite a "burn", but it reminds me of the first sip of a strong mixed drink. Does that make more sense?

A good definition for mouthfeel and body is the weight on your tongue and gums. Wines heavier in ABV and glycerin (which is a natural part of wine) feel heavier on the tongue. Another definition is: "Mouthfeel is really just about how the wine actually feels as you sip it. Does it envelop your entire mouth? Is it more like sipping a glass of water? Or something between the two?"

https://www.goldmedalwineclub.com/blog/post/what-is-wine-mouthfeel
https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/how-strongly-should-wine-be-fermenting.75477/#post-830855
Alcohol strong, flavor strong, or both? It may be the ABV is stronger than your tastebuds likes for a fruit wine.

That's what I thought too. I just wanted to hear someone else say it!

I appreciate this!