How much added sugar can one expect from dried fruit?

[Silenoz]

Hello all,

Venturing into the realm of writing recipes oneself and in these recipes aiming at exceding the alcohol tollerance of the yeast strain as to avoid back sweetening I have run into some questions.
In regards to adding dried fruits I have wondered how much of the sugar as advertised on the label I can expect to end up in the must and what fruit weight (dried, soaked or the assumed 'wet' weight) one should use when deciding on the amount of pectic enzyme to use.

The conditions I would assume are:
- Dried fruits soaked over night
- Dried fruits chopped finely with a proper kitchen appliance
- Pectic Enzyme added as to help with the breakdown of the pectine

Thanks in advance for any consideration of the question!

 

[Johnd]

Hello all,

Venturing into the realm of writing recipes oneself and in these recipes aiming at exceding the alcohol tollerance of the yeast strain as to avoid back sweetening I have run into some questions.
In regards to adding dried fruits I have wondered how much of the sugar as advertised on the label I can expect to end up in the must and what fruit weight (dried, soaked or the assumed 'wet' weight) one should use when deciding on the amount of pectic enzyme to use.

The conditions I would assume are:
- Dried fruits soaked over night
- Dried fruits chopped finely with a proper kitchen appliance
- Pectic Enzyme added as to help with the breakdown of the pectine

Thanks in advance for any consideration of the question!

There are a number of lists available on the web for the BRIX of different kinds of fruits, it's usually a range and is very dependent upon the growing conditions, but it should give you an idea of the sugar available in fresh fruit. Once the fruit is dried, it's hard to determine how much sugar is in there, since there's no water, and the weight is very different than fresh fruit. If I were going to make a wine out of dried fruit, I'd give it a day or two in water to rehydrate, with pectic enzyme, and do some squeezing / mashing to help draw the sugar out into solution. Once you feel like you've got the goods out of the fruit, you can check the BRIX of your must to determine how much sugar to add to bring the content up to your desired starting point / ABV level. Make sure that you don't have any preservatives in the dried fruit that will inhibit fermentation, sulfite is a commonly used preservative in dried fruits and can cause fermentation problems. Another common additive is potassium sorbate, which is, in effect, birth control for yeast, as it keeps the colony from reproducing and thereby inhibiting fermentation.

As far as determining how much pectic enzyme to add, don't stress too much about it, as it's very difficult to overdose with pectic enzyme. A couple or three tablespoons per gallon of must should suit your purposes just fine, and have no ill effects on the finished product. The pectic enzyme will help break the fruit down and get the sugars out into your solution, as well as breaking down the pectin so that you don't have a pectin haze battle when you try to clear your finished product.

 

[sour_grapes]

Here is one datum: for raisins, they are about 2/3 sugar by weight as a rule of thumb.

 

[Ty520]

Dried fruit will have all of its original sugars - only water is lost; dehydrated fruit is usually 25% of original weight, so if you can find a comparable recipe using fresh fruit, and reduce the quantity by weight to 25%, it should still offer the same sugars. I've never found any definitive info on how much of that sugar it will actually give up, though.

I've used dried fruits a couple times, and the flavor profile is quite different - for better or worse - depending on the goal. dried fruit has a 'stewed' quality to it (very much like a prune compared to a fresh plum).

the couple of advantages i have found from using dehydrated fruit is that you don't water down your product, and there is less sediment because it holds up better, so I think i would avoid rehydrating them, and minimize chopping - maybe cut in half to expose inner flesh, and allow the primary must to rehydrate them.

 

[hounddawg]

Dried fruit will have all of its original sugars - only water is lost; dehydrated fruit is usually 25% of original weight, so if you can find a comparable recipe using fresh fruit, and reduce the quantity by weight to 25%, it should still offer the same sugars. I've never found any definitive info on how much of that sugar it will actually give up, though.

I've used dried fruits a couple times, and the flavor profile is quite different - for better or worse - depending on the goal. dried fruit has a 'stewed' quality to it (very much like a prune compared to a fresh plum).

the couple of advantages i have found from using dehydrated fruit is that you don't water down your product, and there is less sediment because it holds up better, so I think i would avoid rehydrating them, and minimize chopping - maybe cut in half to expose inner flesh, and allow the primary must to rehydrate them.

funny. i have acquired some sliced sun dried crabapples from Albania from a all organic mom and pops deal, , i use for a tart finish to pear an/or apple wines, and have been wondering abought the weight difference,,, now for the worry some statement you just pointed out, stewed taste, for what i use crabapples for it , it is around 3 lb fresh weight in 16 gallon,, the ones i got till i get past my cedar rust, (good lord willing ) i got the beginning of fruit,, for the first time in 3 years,
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

Here is one datum: for raisins, they are about 2/3 sugar by weight as a rule of thumb.

2/3 sugar huh, dang @sour_grapes ,, your intent on me trying a raisin wine huh ?
Dawg

 

[Ty520]

Reminds me of Amarone wine, which is quite pleasant - made from old vine Corvina grapes sun dried for 3-4 months.

 

[hounddawg]

Reminds me of Amarone wine, which is quite pleasant - made from old vine Corvina grapes sun dried for 3-4 months.

you talking about raisin wine ?
Dawg

 

[Ty520]

you talking about raisin wine ?
Dawg

Yes,although I am sure the italians would be quite offended if you called it raisin wine.

 

[hounddawg]

Yes,although I am sure the italians would be quite offended if you called it raisin wine.

well then maybe we could come up with a non-offence name, golden raisins or standard raisins ?
thank you
Richard
AKA Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

or a special kind of raisin ?
Dawg

 

[Ty520]

or a special kind of raisin ?
Dawg

Amarone is almost always made from either dried Corvina or Rodinella grapes, but it would be interesting to try the method on other varietals likes zin

 

[hounddawg]

Amarone is almost always made from either dried Corvina or Rodinella grapes, but it would be interesting to try the method on other varietals likes zin

are you in Europe, or can them varies be got in the USA, and if so you wouldn't happen to have a site address?
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

hum, so much different types, never had ever gave it a second thought, well this bears some mulling over
thank ypu
Dawg

 

[Ty520]

are you in Europe, or can them varies be got in the USA, and if so you wouldn't happen to have a site address?
Dawg

no, I am in Arizona - this thread was an interesting coincidence because i just recently had a bottle of Amarone for the first time, and the sommelier was telling me about how it was made. I guess the pertinent point is that in some cases, dried fruit can be desirable.

I did see a few websites selling juice for homebrewers by searching for "amarone juice", but I don't know how credible any of them are, with the exception of WineXpert, who does sell an Amarone kit.

One thing to note though, is that Amarone wine is very expensive because of the added time and energy to dry them, and because it takes 3-4 times as much fruit to produce the same amount of must because of all the lost water content. (they aren't fully dried into a raisin, and still contain some juices)

most vintners who sell Amarone in the US (total Wine has a good selection) also sell a sister wine called Ripasso, AKA "baby amarone" which is a blend of fresh juice and Amarone - much more affordable and not as intense. so maybe doing a fresh/dry blend could also be interesting

 

[heatherd]

Hello all,

Venturing into the realm of writing recipes oneself and in these recipes aiming at exceding the alcohol tollerance of the yeast strain as to avoid back sweetening I have run into some questions.
In regards to adding dried fruits I have wondered how much of the sugar as advertised on the label I can expect to end up in the must and what fruit weight (dried, soaked or the assumed 'wet' weight) one should use when deciding on the amount of pectic enzyme to use.

The conditions I would assume are:
- Dried fruits soaked over night
- Dried fruits chopped finely with a proper kitchen appliance
- Pectic Enzyme added as to help with the breakdown of the pectine

Thanks in advance for any consideration of the question!

Dried fruits are heavily does with sulfites, so be aware of that when making wine with them:
"Dried fruits are among the foods highest in sulfites, with raisins and prunes containing between 500 and 2,000 parts per million. By comparison, wine -- a food thought by many to be high in sulfites -- contains between 20 and 350 parts per million. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration mandates that foods containing more than 10 parts per million of sulfites must list this information on the food label. Countries have different standards for sulfites."
The Health Risks of Sulfur Dioxide in Dried Fruits (sfgate.com)

 

[Silenoz]

There are a number of lists available on the web for the BRIX of different kinds of fruits, it's usually a range and is very dependent upon the growing conditions, but it should give you an idea of the sugar available in fresh fruit. Once the fruit is dried, it's hard to determine how much sugar is in there, since there's no water, and the weight is very different than fresh fruit. If I were going to make a wine out of dried fruit, I'd give it a day or two in water to rehydrate, with pectic enzyme, and do some squeezing / mashing to help draw the sugar out into solution. Once you feel like you've got the goods out of the fruit, you can check the BRIX of your must to determine how much sugar to add to bring the content up to your desired starting point / ABV level. Make sure that you don't have any preservatives in the dried fruit that will inhibit fermentation, sulfite is a commonly used preservative in dried fruits and can cause fermentation problems. Another common additive is potassium sorbate, which is, in effect, birth control for yeast, as it keeps the colony from reproducing and thereby inhibiting fermentation.

As far as determining how much pectic enzyme to add, don't stress too much about it, as it's very difficult to overdose with pectic enzyme. A couple or three tablespoons per gallon of must should suit your purposes just fine, and have no ill effects on the finished product. The pectic enzyme will help break the fruit down and get the sugars out into your solution, as well as breaking down the pectin so that you don't have a pectin haze battle when you try to clear your finished product.

Thanks for the tips!

I currently live in Sweden, where as far as I know laws surrounding food and any additives is quite strict. I don't know what it looks like where you all are from, but here it therefore states quite some nutritional facts on the packaging, among which an estimate of the sugar content.
In regards to the the sulfites and sorbates, I try to buy ecological dried fruits without sulfites as much as possible. The colour isn't always as pretty, but I hope to avoid some of the related fermentation issues by that.
The reason for the above question is twofold;

1. I read somewhere that adding too much pectic enzyme can make that the wine ages too quickly, as I plan on making drief fig wine (with some added raisin for flavour) and a dried appricot wine ( also with some raisins) I figured do would do well having some time to age at a mellow tempo.

2. I would want to exercise some control over the residual sugar as I would like to prevent back sweetening as much as possible. From what I read sugars left over after the fermentation will be much more integrated in the flavour profile than sugars added afterwards. I don't know if this is true yet though

 

[Silenoz]

Here is one datum: for raisins, they are about 2/3 sugar by weight as a rule of thumb.

Thank you kindly!

 

[Silenoz]

Dried fruit will have all of its original sugars - only water is lost; dehydrated fruit is usually 25% of original weight, so if you can find a comparable recipe using fresh fruit, and reduce the quantity by weight to 25%, it should still offer the same sugars. I've never found any definitive info on how much of that sugar it will actually give up, though.

I've used dried fruits a couple times, and the flavor profile is quite different - for better or worse - depending on the goal. dried fruit has a 'stewed' quality to it (very much like a prune compared to a fresh plum).

the couple of advantages i have found from using dehydrated fruit is that you don't water down your product, and there is less sediment because it holds up better, so I think i would avoid rehydrating them, and minimize chopping - maybe cut in half to expose inner flesh, and allow the primary must to rehydrate them.

I made a raisin sherry once with flor yeast and was super content with the flavour, I thought it had a lot of character and was a bit surprised by it's richness tbh.

I rather figured that if I would soak and then chop the dried fruits super fine, put the pulp/goo in a brewing bag that I would increase the reaction surface so much that combined with the pectic enzyme this would guarantee the biggest extraction of the sugars.
It most likely will become a bit messy in the must, but figured I can solve that with clearing agent.

 

[Silenoz]

Dried fruits are heavily does with sulfites, so be aware of that when making wine with them:
"Dried fruits are among the foods highest in sulfites, with raisins and prunes containing between 500 and 2,000 parts per million. By comparison, wine -- a food thought by many to be high in sulfites -- contains between 20 and 350 parts per million. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration mandates that foods containing more than 10 parts per million of sulfites must list this information on the food label. Countries have different standards for sulfites."
The Health Risks of Sulfur Dioxide in Dried Fruits (sfgate.com)

Thank you for your concern! I indeed try to steer clear from dried fruits with sulfites, hence I bought ecological for my coming dried fruit projects.
I do have a bunch of dried prunes laying around with sulfites/sorbates on there and hoped to negate most of those by both waiting with using them untill some time after the expiration date and then soaking and rincing them before use. And probably overdosing a bit on the yeast in the hoped of "outcompeting" the sorbates.