How long to age country wines?

[BigDaveK]

I've been wondering about this.

I know the amount of tannin is one thing to consider. My black walnut and vine cutting wines have a boatload - a couple boatloads - of tannin and may take a couple years.
And I know the phenolic content is also something to consider like with blackberries and beets.

I'm wondering about vegetable, flower, and herb wines. Just going by the color I guess one would classify them as "white" wines. My SOP is to bulk at least 6 months but.... is there a rule of thumb that says a wine will probably peak at "X-ish" months? Or will I have to find out on my own with each specific kind of wine?

 

[mikewatkins727]

12-ish months. Best to keep records as you taste test them along the happy trail.

 

[hounddawg]

yup your whites shorter, black elderberry as long as 10 years,
Dawg

 

[Rice_Guy]

Tannic/ astringent flavor will age well, with more astringent flavor it will deliver age better. Q? Is the fruit/ vegetable considered a super fruit as aronia? , , , , Having alcohol in the food along with natural corks creates ongoing oxidative conditions. Australia has switched to aluminum caps with a Saran seal which age better. Nomacork Reserva line will age better.
Pigments as beet, strawberry, red cabbage, red raspberry don’t have the aggressive flavor notes, without added tannins they won’t age well. Polyphenols are a large chemical family, simply having intense color won’t be an indicator. Vitamin C is very reactive an not a good indicator of shelf life. Every time you rack you are consuming shelf life, do fewer processes where air/ splashing happens.

 

[winemaker81]

Especially for the lighter wines, you may want to reduce bulk aging to 4 months. Some wines will peak VERY early, and have a correspondingly short shelf life.

 

[RevA]

I tend to follow Jack Keller's protocol where aging is concerned. Which basically comes down to 3-6 months bulk and 12-18 months in the bottle before that are at their best.
That said "white" wines (flower and herb wines) are to my taste a month or so after being bottled.

 

[winemaker81]

At first I was thinking about Dave's question, but upon re-read I'm stepping back and considering a more encompassing set of wines. How long should any wine be aged?

Wines with higher levels of alcohol, tannin, acid, sugar, and "body" tend to take longer to become "drinkable" and have a correspondingly longer shelf life before declining (as all wines will). Why? Some are preservatives, and others are complex times that take longer to break down (e.g., tannin).

I put "body" in quotes as it's a more nebulous thing -- reds and heavy fruits tend to have more solids-n-stuff in them, which makes them heavier. "Drinkable" is also in quotes, as there is subjectivity there, although the drinkability of a given wine is generally agreed upon by experienced wine tasters.

So -- wines with higher levels of any of the above items should age longer, and within reason, having high levels of more than one should have a longer lifespan. This is borne out by practical evidence, e.g., most Cabernet Sauvignon (higher ABV, tannin, body) have a significantly longer lifespan than most white wines, as do white dessert wines (higher sugar, acid).

My 2020 Sauvignon Blanc (CA juice) is fizzling at the 2 year mark, as is my 2020 WE Australian Chardonnay. Both wines are average in tannin, acid, and alcohol, and have zero sugar. I expected more from both, but the problem is not the wine, it's MY expectations. 90% of the world's wine production is meant for consumption within 3 years, and my whites fit that model.

OTOH, I made a Winexpert Selection Original Series Green Apple/Riesling kit, which I chaptalized up to a whopping 9.1% ABV, which came in at 3.1% RS with appropriate acid to balance the sugar. No additional tannin. This wine lasted 7 years, and there is no reason it should have. Absolutely none -- it should have faded after 2 years. Why did it survive so long? I must assume that Mother Nature and Dionysus smiled upon it.

My recommendation is to never blindly bulk age wine for an extended period. We practice an art, not a science, and that requires periodic sensory testing.

/soapbox

 

[BigDaveK]

At first I was thinking about Dave's question, but upon re-read I'm stepping back and considering a more encompassing set of wines. How long should any wine be aged?

Wines with higher levels of alcohol, tannin, acid, sugar, and "body" tend to take longer to become "drinkable" and have a correspondingly longer shelf life before declining (as all wines will). Why? Some are preservatives, and others are complex times that take longer to break down (e.g., tannin).

You're absolutely right.
I was hoping for a very general rule of thumb and I realized soon after posting that even that is probably a fool's errand.

Alcohol - most of my wine's start around 1.090 and, depending on fermentation, can easily hit 12%.

Acid - some of my wines use citric acid. As I understand it, it takes less tartaric acid to change pH than citric. Plus citric won't drop out with time.

Tannin - who knew there was so much tannin in some fruit?! And beans!

Lees - I didn't realize how important lees are until recently. During bulk they release enzymes and also can increase "body" by releasing fatty acids and mannoproteins. I'll get rid of gross lees but I don't care about fine lees until just before bottling.

Ingredients - all of my wines now use ingredients from the yard. Who knows what's lost during processing or dehydrating?

And I won't even mention my dessert wines with high alcohol and high sugar which should act as preservatives for a 1000 years.

So all those components change with time (and at different rates) and I guess I'll just have to open a bottle now and then and keep good notes.

 

[winemaker81]

I was hoping for a very general rule of thumb and I realized soon after posting that even that is probably a fool's errand.

Nope, your question is an excellent one that deserves addressing.

Even with understanding the factors (well, as much as I believe I do), estimating wine life is at best an educated guess. I overestimated two current whites, so my confidence with regard to estimating whites is reduced.

Thankfully, I'm batting a better average with reds.

 

[BigDaveK]

Nope, your question is an excellent one that deserves addressing.

Even with understanding the factors (well, as much as I believe I do), estimating wine life is at best an educated guess. I overestimated two current whites, so my confidence with regard to estimating whites is reduced.

A number of things really stand out to me. For one, making wine is so incredibly easy - put stuff in a bucket, make wine. It's like flipping a switch to turn on a light bulb. Many people are content turning on the light, day after day. But the light bulb can be changed for different effects and mood. Going even further, the logistics and processes of getting the electricity to the switch are incredibly complicated and inter-related...and interesting! I guess that's where I am, trying to understand everything beyond the switch.

Early on I made Dragon Blood, intended to be a quick drinker. Initially I thought it was "ok", good experience, probably won't make it again. But after 8 months in a bottle it's actually very nice and I'm surprised - and maybe I will make it again. So to answer my own question, while there may be rules of thumb, patience and experience are equally important. Looks like I have to accept the fact that I need to make wine and drink wine in order to make better wine.

 

[Shurt1073]

Looks like I have to accept the fact that I need to make wine and drink wine in order to make better wine.

Dang I like the way you are thinking!

 

[winemanden]

making wine is so incredibly easy - put stuff in a bucket, make wine.

Anyone can make wine? Making good wine is the reason use this forum. What I don't know, someone else probably does.!

 

[BigDaveK]

Anyone can make wine? Making good wine is the reason use this forum. What I don't know, someone else probably does.!

No, I said making wine is incredibly easy. Yeast will make alcohol with or without us, in a bucket or in the field. But, yes, this forum is an incredible resource to make our next batch better than the last....and the next one better than that one....and.....

I will say that cats can't make wine. The bucket is a just a big round box, the blueberries are under the sofa (mostly), the sugar is everywhere and great for sliding, and they're drinking the water. Not one of my better ideas.

 

[Raptor99]

Making wine is very easy. Making good wine is a lot more difficult. Making excellent wine is truly a challenge.

 

[vinny]

No, I said making wine is incredibly easy. Yeast will make alcohol with or without us, in a bucket or in the field. But, yes, this forum is an incredible resource to make our next batch better than the last....and the next one better than that one....and.....

I will say that cats can't make wine. The bucket is a just a big round box, the blueberries are under the sofa (mostly), the sugar is everywhere and great for sliding, and they're drinking the water. Not one of my better ideas.

I'm not even gonna ask....

 

[vinny]

Making wine is very easy. Making good wine is a lot more difficult. Making excellent wine is truly a challenge.

Kits are a beautiful 'cheat' for me. I can mix some expectation and predictability into the rest of the (slightly) educated guessing.