"Household Wine" container, AKA Fustino

[stbasil]

I am currently bulk ageing my very first wine project, a Cabernet Sauvignon kit. Thinking a few months ahead, I am intrigued with the idea of keeping some of the 6 gallons of wine for home use without having to bottle the whole lot. Some threads here have mentioned the old-world method of keeping wine in a spigotted, straight-side crock, or a stainless container (fustino), in which the wine is protected from oxygenation via a floating circular wood cover supplemented by olive oil around the edges (or maybe a baking soda/vinegar contraption to generate CO2 placed on top of the floater). I have found many "water dispensers" which unfortunately do not have straight sides. However, I ran across this

https://www.amazon.com/Northern-Brewer-Continuous-Container-Stainless/dp/B07R5X6BL7?ref_=ast_sto_dp

which is intended for kombucha. It looks perfect for the purpose of keeping wine, once I carefully fabricate a round oak floating cover, and maybe something to cover the top also. Yes, it is clear glass, but I would be keeping this in a dark pantry, not in our sunny kitchen!

I am interested in opinions as to whether this is workable or not, especially from some of the forum members who are using a similar setup.

 

[Rice_Guy]

@stbasil to do a fustino well requires some pretty good fabrication. To make fabrication easier I would look at acrylic which can be laser cut into a round and is a food grade resin. (look for someone who makes trophies)

If I am being practical the bag in box setup is off the shelf and works without tweaking the concept, or a corney beer keg with gas pressure on the head space. ,,,, yes I do have a laser cut round for a gas tight secondary fermentor concept, ,, and the reality is it makes a decent food grade press plate but needed more tweaking to be gas tight.

 

[ratflinger]

@stbasil I keg my table wine in corny kegs and use argon for pressure. I have found no taste change and the argon also displaces the oxygen. Kegs hold 5 gallons, so I just fill 5 bottles from the leftovers.

https://www.amazon.com/Gallon-Corne...mzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc

 

[Jim Welch]

I believe the bag in box or kegs are head and shoulders better than the kombucha container. Unless you will be rapidly drawing the wine out of the kombucha container in a matter of a couple days the risk of oxidation seems pretty high.
Using keg(s) requires an investment in additional supplies beyond the keg itself of course. I too utilize kegs, for me mostly as aging vessels but can and have easily draw(n) wine with a picnic tap. Bag in a box I believe only requires buying the bags/boxes.
With that said, I used one of my numerous kegs to free up some carboys last winter in a pinch. It worked so well for me and my MO that letting my wine spend their final aging in a keg has become de rigueur. Then I bottle right out of the keg under low gas pressure.

 

[stbasil]

Thanks, everyone. I think I will just go with the bags, much easier, though much less aesthetically pleasing!

 

[Wayne Freeman]

Go with the bags. I use the bags for my whites, and my reds go into a stainless steel fustino that I was lucky enough to snag in a little winemaker shop in Capitola, CA 20 years ago. They were selling it for next to nothing, not knowing exactly what it was for. My wife and I had just returned from an extended trip to Italy, where we found such things everywhere, of every size (from 3 liters to 500 liters and possibly larger) on the counters of pizzerias, to sell by the carafe, and in wineries to sell wine to customers who brought their own fustini and fiaschi. You could buy the home-sized ones in the hardware stores.

The fustino has an inner lid that floats on the wine, keeping contact with air to a minimum. The wine generally keeps about 3 months, so you have to drink it fairly regularly. It's a terrible job, but somebody has to do it.

I've never seen another one in the states, aside from the one I have.

If I didn't have the fustino, I'd put my reds in bags, too. It's just fun to go down into the cellar and draw off a half or 3/4 liter of wine for dinner.

 

[AbruzziRed]

Go with the bags. I use the bags for my whites, and my reds go into a stainless steel fustino that I was lucky enough to snag in a little winemaker shop in Capitola, CA 20 years ago. They were selling it for next to nothing, not knowing exactly what it was for. My wife and I had just returned from an extended trip to Italy, where we found such things everywhere, of every size (from 3 liters to 500 liters and possibly larger) on the counters of pizzerias, to sell by the carafe, and in wineries to sell wine to customers who brought their own fustini and fiaschi. You could buy the home-sized ones in the hardware stores.

The fustino has an inner lid that floats on the wine, keeping contact with air to a minimum. The wine generally keeps about 3 months, so you have to drink it fairly regularly. It's a terrible job, but somebody has to do it.

I've never seen another one in the states, aside from the one I have.

If I didn't have the fustino, I'd put my reds in bags, too. It's just fun to go down into the cellar and draw off a half or 3/4 liter of wine for dinner.

Hi can you share details on the bags your using?

 

[Rice_Guy]

The name is “bag in box” wine bags. I have found that they actually hold more than the rating as a 10 liter would max at about 17 liters if in-supported or a three liter holds over 4 liters. If you are creative with the box they will fit the exact volume of wine.

A good film is rated for low oxygen transmission. Ex EvOH or metalized (aluminum) films. There are quite a few suppliers. The ideal would be pyramid shape with the spout as the peak. BUT it is cheaper to weld that on a flat. See:
https://craftedseries.com/products/...7IrcFTPfCA58Um5OQRy-__9NvgliN-CEaAtWsEALw_wcB

 

[Wayne Freeman]

Hi can you share details on the bags your using?

Here's a link to the product page on Amazon:

aPour Wine Chiller Bag Dispensing System Replaces Wine In box. Decorative Box Wine Dispenser Cocktail Beverage Dispenser Wine Storage Holder for Kitchen Bar Countertop Fridge Wine Party… (Grape)​

This is a really attractive new product. Mine just looks like a little trash bucket with a hole in one side! I'd keep this new one on my kitchen counter instead of hidden down in the wine cellar. I'd get less exercise, though.

The same page is where you can buy additional bags.

 

[AbruzziRed]

The name is “bag in box” wine bags. I have found that they actually hold more than the rating as a 10 liter would max at about 17 liters if in-supported or a three liter holds over 4 liters. If you are creative with the box they will fit the exact volume of wine.

A good film is rated for low oxygen transmission. Ex EvOH or metalized (aluminum) films. There are quite a few suppliers. The ideal would be pyramid shape with the spout as the peak. BUT it is cheaper to weld that on a flat. See:
https://craftedseries.com/products/...7IrcFTPfCA58Um5OQRy-__9NvgliN-CEaAtWsEALw_wcB

Thanks! This is good for big batches but I am looking for something smaller that can fit on the counter top and fit a few bottles. I found Astrapouch and thinking about trying that.

 

[Bmd2k1]

The name is “bag in box” wine bags. I have found that they actually hold more than the rating as a 10 liter would max at about 17 liters if in-supported or a three liter holds over 4 liters. If you are creative with the box they will fit the exact volume of wine.

A good film is rated for low oxygen transmission. Ex EvOH or metalized (aluminum) films. There are quite a few suppliers. The ideal would be pyramid shape with the spout as the peak. BUT it is cheaper to weld that on a flat. See:
https://craftedseries.com/products/...7IrcFTPfCA58Um5OQRy-__9NvgliN-CEaAtWsEALw_wcB

Curious how long wines are good for when stored & served this way?

Cheers!

 

[Bmd2k1]

Thanks! This is good for big batches but I am looking for something smaller that can fit on the counter top and fit a few bottles. I found Astrapouch and thinking about trying that.

Looks like they offer them in various sizes - down to 5L.

Cheers!

 

[Rice_Guy]

Curious how long wines are good for when stored & served this way

Shelf life Q? Every film / plastic has a rating of mg oxygen per square meter per year on how much oxygen transfer there is.
An aluminized film is excellent, roughly as tight as a stainless steel tank (Note pin holes exist in the aluminum which can do micro oxygenation like a natural cork ). EvOH (transparent film structure) is a two layer composite which has an oxygen barrier film coextruded with an alcohol/ polar solvent barrier. Again excellent, and similar to a PET Better Bottle.
Serving Q? A properly filled bag in box has no head space. One can dispense drinks with the film collapsing and have the remainder stay fresh. ie it works better than a glass bottle.
Limitation Q? The films need to be supported. When I ferment in one racking off lees isn’t as easy. A cork & airlock need to be supported so l use a jig to hold the opening. Harder to clean and dry, as a final rinse I put an oz of alcohol in.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Had less than a gallon left from a carboy. A few pictures.
(This is a cyser.) A BIB valve needs a support. This has a two piece aluminum round that fits the spout.

in this application I have a check valve and vacuumed out till about 10mm of head space.