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SeniorHobby

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Haach has a built in pH meter. The tool works by having a calibrated pump add sodium hydroxide (AKA titrant) till the pH is 8.2. ,,,, The kit has phenothalene indicator which changes color at pH 8.2 so we are measuring the same thing just with a different tool.
Haach has a digital screen which should give the pH constantly, if you make note of it before you do the start button, this is your sample pH.
I use an Extech pH meter which was about $70. For me the deciding factor is it has a flat sample “bulb”/ thin glass so I can do a reading on a drop, or I can run solids like blocks of cheese. A good pH meter has a gel filled electrode, has a replaceable electrode, and a read out to 0.01 unit. ,,, 0.05 is good enough but they jump from .1 to .01 read out.
View attachment 81055
NOTE; I do manual titrations with the pH meter similar to what the Haach does.

? ? ? Senior, did you post what kind of wine you like?
Grape as juice buckets or kits is pretty close to ideal. Me with country wines I have high pH as peach or plum and low pH as cornelian cherry and just right as grape or apple. ,,,, OH key point less than pH 4.0 to is a “fence” that keeps some families from growing, also over 5% alcohol is a “fence” that prevents most infections. Therefore we use pH to make a safe food.

TA is a flavor property.
Most of us risk oxidation issues, my quality improved when I assumed that free SO2 was zero and added the appropriate dose if residue was zero. I will bet that if you have flavor issues increased metabisulphite dosage will fix it.

Wine is fun and more folks want it, ,,,, kinda hard to give free rice samples or textured soy protein to the neighbors, ,,, AKA rice-Guy, former area of employment.
Haach has a built in pH meter. The tool works by having a calibrated pump add sodium hydroxide (AKA titrant) till the pH is 8.2. ,,,, The kit has phenothalene indicator which changes color at pH 8.2 so we are measuring the same thing just with a different tool.
Haach has a digital screen which should give the pH constantly, if you make note of it before you do the start button, this is your sample pH.
I use an Extech pH meter which was about $70. For me the deciding factor is it has a flat sample “bulb”/ thin glass so I can do a reading on a drop, or I can run solids like blocks of cheese. A good pH meter has a gel filled electrode, has a replaceable electrode, and a read out to 0.01 unit. ,,, 0.05 is good enough but they jump from .1 to .01 read out.
View attachment 81055
NOTE; I do manual titrations with the pH meter similar to what the Haach does.

? ? ? Senior, did you post what kind of wine you like?
Grape as juice buckets or kits is pretty close to ideal. Me with country wines I have high pH as peach or plum and low pH as cornelian cherry and just right as grape or apple. ,,,, OH key point less than pH 4.0 to is a “fence” that keeps some families from growing, also over 5% alcohol is a “fence” that prevents most infections. Therefore we use pH to make a safe food.

TA is a flavor property.
Most of us risk oxidation issues, my quality improved when I assumed that free SO2 was zero and added the appropriate dose if residue was zero. I will bet that if you have flavor issues increased metabisulphite dosage will fix it.

Wine is fun and more folks want it, ,,,, kinda hard to give free rice samples or textured soy protein to the neighbors, ,,, AKA rice-Guy, former area of employment.
Haach has a built in pH meter. The tool works by having a calibrated pump add sodium hydroxide (AKA titrant) till the pH is 8.2. ,,,, The kit has phenothalene indicator which changes color at pH 8.2 so we are measuring the same thing just with a different tool.
Haach has a digital screen which should give the pH constantly, if you make note of it before you do the start button, this is your sample pH.
I use an Extech pH meter which was about $70. For me the deciding factor is it has a flat sample “bulb”/ thin glass so I can do a reading on a drop, or I can run solids like blocks of cheese. A good pH meter has a gel filled electrode, has a replaceable electrode, and a read out to 0.01 unit. ,,, 0.05 is good enough but they jump from .1 to .01 read out.
View attachment 81055
NOTE; I do manual titrations with the pH meter similar to what the Haach does.

? ? ? Senior, did you post what kind of wine you like?
Grape as juice buckets or kits is pretty close to ideal. Me with country wines I have high pH as peach or plum and low pH as cornelian cherry and just right as grape or apple. ,,,, OH key point less than pH 4.0 to is a “fence” that keeps some families from growing, also over 5% alcohol is a “fence” that prevents most infections. Therefore we use pH to make a safe food.

TA is a flavor property.
Most of us risk oxidation issues, my quality improved when I assumed that free SO2 was zero and added the appropriate dose if residue was zero. I will bet that if you have flavor issues increased metabisulphite dosage will fix it.

Wine is fun and more folks want it, ,,,, kinda hard to give free rice samples or textured soy protein to the neighbors, ,,, AKA rice-Guy, former area of employment.
I guess I am still experimenting with wine, I know that I am not a big fan of the dry wine. I do appreciate Moscato, not sure if that is a well know variety or not. I guess I would say a sweet wine is more to my liking. The whole idea of making my own wine sounded fun. I do not own grape vines, although am considering it. I better decide soon as I'm told it takes quite a few years to be able to use the grapes for wines! I have picked wild grapes and this past fall was able to harvest grapes from others who had more than they needed (hoping that they weren't too ripe). I don't want to risk starting the grape wine until I have a little more knowledge about PH & Acids. I have a batch of wild grape wine sitting in my carboy from last year. It's been racked multiple times. I know that I made mistakes when I started it as it was several years since I made a batch. I was hoping that I could correct it after the fact. Not sure what to do with it! You suggest metabisulphite?
Utility industry
 

Rice_Guy

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* wild grape tends to be high on the % of acid per liter, most recipes will dilute it to get the TA in the normal good taste.
* you are not alone, the sales of wine indicates there is a preference for sugar. As a home wine maker I deal with this by adding a sugar/ honey/ juice back, and if the wine is young sorbate to prevent refermentation.
* for where I am in the Midwest and belonging to two vinters clubs, ,,,, I have access to juice and grapes and fruit and pick choke cherries on fence lines and grow my own. It is worth while doing a search to expand your access. Likewise to watch the neighbors crops, I am looking at ten gallons of apple juice in good part because I started taking a grandkid for rides in a red wagon and afterwards knocked on a door 8 blocks out and asked if they ever harvest the apples, ,,,, lots of folks have good intentions, I also gave away five gallons of rhubarb juice that never got made when it was time to pick new crop., ,,,, I grow grapes too. The humidity in the Midwest means disease pressure is bad and more learning curve, ,,,,, are you a farmer in heart? , then grow.
* I look for high pH to mix with low pH. but this is the nature of the beast with country wines. I also have favorites as several crab apples trees for tannin that are two miles away or passion fruit has fantastic aromatics, I will use it at 0.1 or 0.1% in the future. Wine is sorta like cooking a blend of ingredients makes a better pasta sauce., ,,,,, and grape is my model what flavor/ exciting tannin etc is missing on that ten gallon of apple that grape has.
 
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SeniorHobby

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* wild grape tends to be high on the % of acid per liter, most recipes will dilute it to get the TA in the normal good taste.
* you are not alone, the sales of wine indicates there is a preference for sugar. As a home wine maker I deal with this by adding a sugar/ honey/ juice back, and if the wine is young sorbate to prevent refermentation.
* for where I am in the Midwest and belonging to two vinters clubs, ,,,, I have access to juice and grapes and fruit and pick choke cherries on fence lines and grow my own. It is worth while doing a search to expand your access. Likewise to watch the neighbors crops, I am looking at ten gallons of apple juice in good part because I started taking a grandkid for rides in a red wagon and afterwards knocked on a door 8 blocks out and asked if they ever harvest the apples, ,,,, lots of folks have good intentions, I also gave away five gallons of rhubarb juice that never got made when it was time to pick new crop., ,,,, I grow grapes too. The humidity in the Midwest means disease pressure is bad and more learning curve, ,,,,, are you a farmer in heart? , then grow.
* I look for high pH to mix with low pH. but this is the nature of the beast with country wines. I also have favorites as several crab apples trees for tannin that are two miles away or passion fruit has fantastic aromatics, I will use it at 0.1 or 0.1% in the future. Wine is sorta like cooking a blend of ingredients makes a better pasta sauce., ,,,,, and grape is my model what flavor/ exciting tannin etc is missing on that ten gallon of apple that grape has.
I am from the midwest too. I was raised on a dairy farm so I do have the farmer at the heart, just don't know if I have the time to invest. I love flowers a little more than wine!! Can't quite do everything anymore. I also harvest chokecherries, I do have strawberries and raspberries as well. My neighbor gave us at least 25-5 gallon pails of apples that they had no use for, I made apple cider, applesauce, apple salsa and eventually will do wine too. I have a brother-in-law who works full time who has grapes. His father dabbled for many years and made good wine but based on my conversations with him and his son I believe that he didn't get to in-depth with making it. I like to read and try to learn from that, but no one seems to give me the easy answer I am looking for when it comes to knowing my total acids and ph!! I have a freezer full of wild grapes, strawberries, rhubarb, chokecherries, domestic grapes just waiting for me to get to it!! I didn't understand the last comment on grape, tannins, apple.
 

mikewatkins727

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Tannin is what gives wine that "puker" power mouth feel and is naturally occurring in grapes and some other foods (crabapples as an example). One can increase the tannin by adding grape tannin powder or mixing other food groups with a higher tannin level into the wine must. Thus we have "kitchen" chemistry.
 

winemaker81

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@SeniorHobby, read fruit wine recipes. I suggest reading several of a type, e.g., search for chokecherry recipes and read a bunch of 'em. A lot of old recipes (and some new ones) are not that good, but by reading a bunch and asking questions here you can narrow in on what you want to do.

Adding onto Mike's statement about tannin, a lot of recipes call for adding a specific amount of powdered grape tannin. Others call for adding strongly brewed tea, which was the common answer before the availability of powdered tannin.

For pH? I'm the outlier on this forum. I have pH test strips, but don't do a real pH test. For fruit wines I follow a recipe for adding acid (blend, tartaric, citric, etc.) or may use lemons.

In an offline conversation @Rembee suggested 1 cup Earl Grey tea and the zest and juice of 1 lemon, per gallon, for apple wine. If my plans come to fruition, I'll be buying a couple of bushels of apples (1 sweet, 1 tart) and making a batch.
 

SeniorHobby

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Tannin is what gives wine that "puker" power mouth feel and is naturally occurring in grapes and some other foods (crabapples as an example). One can increase the tannin by adding grape tannin powder or mixing other food groups with a higher tannin level into the wine must. Thus we have "kitchen" chemistry.
Thanks Mike! I have read about tannins, but have not had much opportunity to work with grape wines so I haven't used them yet.
 

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