Help/Thoughts/ 5 gal Blueberry must about to get tossed

[smcroni]

Ok, never have had a problem getting a fermentation going before. I have made numerous muscadine wine batches and just bottled a strawberry dessert wine. Trying to make a blueberry wine for first time and can't get fermentation to begin. I started this Sunday evening at 6 pm so roughly 72 hrs ago. I am questioning 2 things mainly, those being, Star San and my frozen blueberries.
Rinsed fermentation bucket with Star San , let it sit a few minutes and rinsed it out good.
12lbs of frozen blueberries (Great Value Frozen Blueberries and Frozen Blueberries from Aldi roughly 1/2 each)
8lbs sugar
3.5 to 4gal of water
Pectic Enzyme
4 crushed campden tablets
yeast nutrient
yeast

Bucket was rinsed with Star San as mentioned above and roughly 10 min later placed partially frozen fruit in mesh bag in fermentation bucket and fruit was gently pressed. Used bottom a wine bottle, which had been dipped in Star San when soaking fermentation bucket and rinsed bottle off. Added sugar water and pectic enzyme and stirred. Added crushed campden tablets, stirred again and covered with a towel. Stirred again after 12 hrs. At roughly 20 hrs after I started the must I rehydrated the yeast, Red Star Premier Cuvee, let it sit 20 min and added to the must added 1/4 tsp of yeast nutrient as I hadn't checked my supplies and that is all I had. That was Monday about 2 PM. Yesterday morning, Tuesday 18 hrs after pitching yeast no activity. So off to supply store to get some yeast nutrient blend. Throw in 4 tsp stir a bit recover the bucket with the towel. Give it a look last night about 9 pm nothing going on. We are now 51 hrs from starting the must, and about 36 hrs from pitching the yeast and 9 hours or so after I added the yeast nutrient. So I decide to begin a starter. Rinse a mason jar out with a bit of Star San, when I say bit I mean a drop. Foams up let it sit 10 to 15 min rinse until all foam is gone. I add 8 ounces of the juice from my fermentation bucket, 2 or 3 tblsp of sugar mixed to dilution in 4 oz of water 1 tsp of yeast nutrient give it a stir, then sprinkle in a packet of Redstar Champagne yeast. Cover with a paper towel. I check on it 3 hrs later about midnight and it is foaming good. Maybe a 1 inch thick layer of foam. I figure I'll let it go until morning to make sure my yeast are good and active and acclimated then I will pour the starter into my must. Wake up this morning, foaming had stopped and dissipated in the mason jar. I put it in the must anyway. SG before I pitched the yeast initially was 1.1, seems high, but my SG vessel is plastic so viewing with these ageing eyes is difficult. It was in the dessert wine category which on my hydrometer is blue. Temperature of must is 72 degrees.

So I am stumped and thinking perhaps I didn't let ferment bucket air dry long enough or rinse good enough of suspecting maybe the blueberries have a preservative in them. I have looked on the Wal Mart web site at the packaging and there is no preservative listed on the bag. It was their 3lb frozen blueberries. I need to head to Aldi and check their blueberries. I have used the same brand of frozen strawberries before from ALDI with no issue.
I hate to toss it but if the blueberries have a preservative, I'm done anyway. I am leaning towards that since my starter last night started so good and then 6 or 7 hrs later it appears to have ceased. Toughts , comment and any similar experiences appreciated before I toss 35 bucks of frozen blueberries

 

[salcoco]

I would wait another two days at least. stir the must each day. blueberry is hard to start. just have some more patience. check with hydrometer each day. foaming may not be evident of actual fermentation.

 

[meadmaker1]

Make a starter with a new pack of yeast. Hydrate, mix it some sugar after a few hrs of activity in a loose lid jar add to must.

 

[user 36973]

Nothing is standing out to me as being a procedural problem. The star-san is supposed to be a no-rinse sanitizer anyway, so under-rinsing your bucket shouldn't be a problem. I'm guessing the yeast is in its lag stage and should take off soon.

Did you use tap water, well water, or chlorine-filtered water from the store? Don't know if any of these would actually pose an issue though. I've not had any trouble with water-softened well water. Maybe someone else can chime in if there is a negative experience with tap water?

 

[RRRwine]

I agree things look proper and should take off. Last batch I had with a difficult fermentation, my mentor suggested taking the starter and slowly start adding the must to it, a little at a time watching to see if the fermentation stops.

 

[smcroni]

Thanks for the comments so far. They are all along my lines of thinking and what I have researched. I know patience is a virtue but I am not virtuous!! I lifted the towel to look at It a few minutes ago and did notice a bubble or two, first ones I have seen, so I am hoping it is just slow. I'll give it a few hours to work and give it a good stir. I'll keep you posted

Regarding the tap water. Yes, I used tap water and have in several other batches of various wines and never had an issue. Of course you never know when they flush the lines, but I always give it a good smell and let it run for a few minutes before using it for wine making. With the strawberry and muscadine wines I have made in the past, I have typically had a cap start forming within 18 to 24 hours and a fair amount of foaming and bubbling within a few hours.

 

[pgentile]

Usually frozen blueberries don't have anything added, but you never know. Anything on the packaging as far as ingredients like sorbate?

Also straight blueberries are high in acid and are known to be difficult to start or finish. But the sugar and water should have lessened that. The only other thing I could think of is if your starting SG is actually way above 1.100.

Good luck

 

[Johnd]

8 pounds of sugar in 3.5 gallons of water should've given you a starting SG in the 1.09 range, you read 1.100 which is also just fine. As @pgentile said, blueberries can be very acidic and difficult to get started, I don't suppose you checked the pH before you pitched?

Have seen some musts take up to 4 days to get started, so don't pitch it, your'e only two days in. Unless you had some bad yeast, my bet is that it'll get going..........

 

[winggolder33]

Ok, never have had a problem getting a fermentation going before. I have made numerous muscadine wine batches and just bottled a strawberry dessert wine. Trying to make a blueberry wine for first time and can't get fermentation to begin. I started this Sunday evening at 6 pm so roughly 72 hrs ago. I am questioning 2 things mainly, those being, Star San and my frozen blueberries.
Rinsed fermentation bucket with Star San , let it sit a few minutes and rinsed it out good.
12lbs of frozen blueberries (Great Value Frozen Blueberries and Frozen Blueberries from Aldi roughly 1/2 each)
8lbs sugar
3.5 to 4gal of water
Pectic Enzyme
4 crushed campden tablets
yeast nutrient
yeast

Bucket was rinsed with Star San as mentioned above and roughly 10 min later placed partially frozen fruit in mesh bag in fermentation bucket and fruit was gently pressed. Used bottom a wine bottle, which had been dipped in Star San when soaking fermentation bucket and rinsed bottle off. Added sugar water and pectic enzyme and stirred. Added crushed campden tablets, stirred again and covered with a towel. Stirred again after 12 hrs. At roughly 20 hrs after I started the must I rehydrated the yeast, Red Star Premier Cuvee, let it sit 20 min and added to the must added 1/4 tsp of yeast nutrient as I hadn't checked my supplies and that is all I had. That was Monday about 2 PM. Yesterday morning, Tuesday 18 hrs after pitching yeast no activity. So off to supply store to get some yeast nutrient blend. Throw in 4 tsp stir a bit recover the bucket with the towel. Give it a look last night about 9 pm nothing going on. We are now 51 hrs from starting the must, and about 36 hrs from pitching the yeast and 9 hours or so after I added the yeast nutrient. So I decide to begin a starter. Rinse a mason jar out with a bit of Star San, when I say bit I mean a drop. Foams up let it sit 10 to 15 min rinse until all foam is gone. I add 8 ounces of the juice from my fermentation bucket, 2 or 3 tblsp of sugar mixed to dilution in 4 oz of water 1 tsp of yeast nutrient give it a stir, then sprinkle in a packet of Redstar Champagne yeast. Cover with a paper towel. I check on it 3 hrs later about midnight and it is foaming good. Maybe a 1 inch thick layer of foam. I figure I'll let it go until morning to make sure my yeast are good and active and acclimated then I will pour the starter into my must. Wake up this morning, foaming had stopped and dissipated in the mason jar. I put it in the must anyway. SG before I pitched the yeast initially was 1.1, seems high, but my SG vessel is plastic so viewing with these ageing eyes is difficult. It was in the dessert wine category which on my hydrometer is blue. Temperature of must is 72 degrees.

So I am stumped and thinking perhaps I didn't let ferment bucket air dry long enough or rinse good enough of suspecting maybe the blueberries have a preservative in them. I have looked on the Wal Mart web site at the packaging and there is no preservative listed on the bag. It was their 3lb frozen blueberries. I need to head to Aldi and check their blueberries. I have used the same brand of frozen strawberries before from ALDI with no issue.
I hate to toss it but if the blueberries have a preservative, I'm done anyway. I am leaning towards that since my starter last night started so good and then 6 or 7 hrs later it appears to have ceased. Toughts , comment and any similar experiences appreciated before I toss 35 bucks of frozen blueberries

Blueberry is usually hard to start. It contains a chemical used to halt fermentation. I read that you should not add Camden tables or metabisulfite prior to fermentation. Sometimes it helps to dilute must with water 10 or 20% and restart yeast.

 

[smcroni]

Thanks for all of your comments and sharing of knowledge. It kicked into high gear over night.

 

[Johnd]

Thanks for all of your comments and sharing of knowledge. It kicked into high gear over night.

Glad to hear that! When your parameters are all in line and things don’t get going, time is usually all it takes.

 

[Scooter68]

At the risk of being a contrarian, I've never had a problem with blueberries starting fermentation BUT I have had issues when the room/must has been cool (Low to mid 60s) SInce you started with frozen berries and there is no mention of the room temp, AND since everything else sound good, WAIT and check temps.

 

[memnosine]

Hi, I'm having the same problem on a smaller scale. Ma,king three gallons of Dragon Blood; it's three days and nothing is happening. I'm going to try the solution recommended above --make a yeast starter outside the primary-- and hope for the best. The must smells good, as it should..
4 pounds Costco frozen berries (straw, blue, and black)
6 lbs sugar
1.5 tsp pectin enzymes
3/4 tsp super nutrient
1/4 tsp tannin
D47 yeast to start, added EC1118 rehydrated yesterday
Initial SG 1082.at 69 degrees; today it's 1078 at 76 degrees.

 

[JamesGrape]

The drop in s.g. and the raise in temp indicates that fermentation has begun. If the s.g. continues to drop you will know for sure.

 

[memnosine]

Another couple of days, made a starter with a fresh pack of yeast. Going great; will add it to the must when I've built it up to a litre. Finger's are crossed. SG is still 1075, temps are dropping, now 75. Cold front here is Denver.

 

[Scooter68]

If your must temp is at 70 or above there should be no problem....unless your temp gets over 80. Think for most yeasts - for starting the fermentation - temps between 65 - 75 F is best. After fermentation is underway lowering the temp if desirable for white wines.

 

[MJD]

Everyone has responded well so far, but to add my two cents, blueberry (4 batches now) has always been hard to start. Add some heat via heating pads or a hotter room in the house, get a very vigorous starter going, and baby it until fermentation begins. Plenty of nutrient and time.

Also - even using good quality yeast, I've had hit-or-miss luck with getting a good packet. Sometimes it just takes another packet of yeast.

 

[memnosine]

MJD, I think you're correct; my first yeast was a bit old, and the second (directly to the must) probably died of shock. The starter seems to have done the trick. Currently at 1060 and moderately fizzy. Thanks to all.
Sorry,simcroni; did not mean to hijack your thread.