We started a Cab. SAuv. (Vintners Reserve 0427204 0074) on Jan 07.We racked it on Jan 15, into a glass corboy the Sp Gr at that time was 1.01.The carboy was topped with a water seal and placed in a darkened wine cellar Temp between 72 and 76 . The must appears to be clearing at the top and has about 2 inches of sediment on the bottom. Today is the 6th day the sp gr is .99 . My concern is a vinegary aroma. Is this expected at this stage,or is their something I need to do to correct this? I also have an Estate Series Napa Merlot in the second fermintation, but it has a pleasant aroma. Thank You for your response', {d '2005-01-22'} )"
WineXpert Help this is my first kit!!
- Thread starter Tjah
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The vinegar smell comes from alcohol turning to acetic acid and means the must has been contaminated with bacteria and this batch is no good....bummer...
Check out this link, it explains reasons why this can happen and what to do to prevent it in the future!<?
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http://winemakermag.com/mrwizard/117.html<O></O>
Edited by: masta
Check out this link, it explains reasons why this can happen and what to do to prevent it in the future!<?
amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><O></O>http://winemakermag.com/mrwizard/117.html<O
></O>Edited by: masta
Thank you for the link.Do you think this batch could be salvagable since it is still in the fermentation phase? I think we will go ahead with stabilazation and clarification. It is a kit so I have the chemicals, nothing to lose. Thanks again, Judy
Not sure if this batch is actually dangerous to your health to consume
, even if it is drinkable in the end. I would be extremely careful not to transfer this bacteria to the other batch you have going, since I am sure you are using the same equipment!<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
If this was me I would check it again by smell and tasting and if it is truly contaminatedI would cutmy losses now and dump it and make sure you clean everything very well.
What are you using for a primary fermenter and what type of sanitizer are you using?
amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />If this was me I would check it again by smell and tasting and if it is truly contaminatedI would cutmy losses now and dump it and make sure you clean everything very well.
What are you using for a primary fermenter and what type of sanitizer are you using?
I bought an equipment kit, came with a plastic fermentor bucket and a glass carboy. I washed everything with an unscented detergent and cleaned with metasulphite solution as directed ...all equipment . The guy at the store ( didn't buy at Fine Wine went there on a Friday and found him closed, should have checked the web site first!)stressed cleaning so we were extremly careful with that cleaned everything. We used an air lock and cleaned everything again each testing and when we racked it.. The only thing I didn't use meta in the airlock..just water.
We used regular tap water,We built our home last fall, and had our water tested then to decide if we need a water treatment system (We had that rainsoft system at our previous home) Anyway, the waterwas "perfect' then..so I don't know.
Do you chill your must after clarification ? We have a wine cellar but have waited to cool it.Stays about68 in there if we close the doors. We have left it open for the fermentation process to keep it about 72-75.
We used regular tap water,We built our home last fall, and had our water tested then to decide if we need a water treatment system (We had that rainsoft system at our previous home) Anyway, the waterwas "perfect' then..so I don't know.
Do you chill your must after clarification ? We have a wine cellar but have waited to cool it.Stays about68 in there if we close the doors. We have left it open for the fermentation process to keep it about 72-75.
geocorn
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I'm sorry I got in late on the discussion. Masta is right IF you are sure it is a vinegary smell. I have had several customers confuse the fermentation smell with a vinegary smell. Before you throw it out, give it a taste. There is nothing in it that can hurt you. By now you should be able to tell by tasting if it is going to be any good.
It sounds like you may have a bad kit. If it is a Winexpert or a RJ Spagnols, bring me a taste. I will be happy to send to the manufacturer for their comments and a refund, if it is a bad kit.
Call me on Monday and we can discuss your options.
It sounds like you may have a bad kit. If it is a Winexpert or a RJ Spagnols, bring me a taste. I will be happy to send to the manufacturer for their comments and a refund, if it is a bad kit.
Call me on Monday and we can discuss your options.
Hi all, new to forum and winemaking and thought i'd pose a questionthat came to me when readingthe link that masta gave. At the end it gives some tips on how to keep this from happening and it says "*If there must be headspace in a barrel or carboy, blanket the surface of the liquid with carbon dioxide or nitrogen gas, if available." I'm currently reading the book "Home Winemaking Step by Step" by Jon Iverson. The author is pretty big on keeping the wine away from oxygen as much as possible and suggests sparging the carboy with argon before racking (instead of Carbon Dioxide because he says its heavier and less readily absorbed by the wine). Any thoughts on this as the winemaker magazine post didn't mention argon as an option? Thanks for any advice you guys can offer.
Tjah,<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
Just a quick note on temperature of your fermentation area. Since the primary fermentation creates some heat you might want to keep the air temp in your room closer to 70 <SUP>0</SUP> F (I keep my room at 68 <SUP>0</SUP> F). The reasons for this is some yeast have a temp threshold and too high of a temp especially in white wines can cause the fermentation to stop prematurely and produce off flavors.
Does anyone have any specific info that they recorded on actual temperature increases during fermentation?
amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />Just a quick note on temperature of your fermentation area. Since the primary fermentation creates some heat you might want to keep the air temp in your room closer to 70 <SUP>0</SUP> F (I keep my room at 68 <SUP>0</SUP> F). The reasons for this is some yeast have a temp threshold and too high of a temp especially in white wines can cause the fermentation to stop prematurely and produce off flavors.
Does anyone have any specific info that they recorded on actual temperature increases during fermentation?
Wow , what a great forum!!
Well, we did the stabilization as instructed in the kit...the vinegar smell has dissipated I am crossing my fingers..Also tasted it, it doesn't compare to the Woodbridge Cab Cauv we capped off with , but I didn't expect it to , doesn't taste like vinegar though .
George I appreciate your offer to taste etc..We are 2 hours from your shop. I actually have been there twice. I now know your hours though. I love this site , that is how we found your shop. My husband spoke to you on Thurs, we were planning to see you on Sat AM,but we were so anxious to get started we drove over on Friday, and missed you. I drove back over a week later, arrived Monday AM and missed you again. Anyway I will get it right next time!!
The Merlot is the Napa Estate Series, they suggest aging 3 years..We want to purchase some testing equipment, so that we can baby it along and hopefully get a better result. I have been reading everything I can find on the subject.We have jumped in full force, I really hope the first batch is OK..we never do anything on a small scale. We have 4 kits going now. We will be racking a Pinot Noir tonight for the secondary fermentation. I think we will pull it out of thewine cellar and turn on the cooler for the others.
Thanks again, Judy
Well, we did the stabilization as instructed in the kit...the vinegar smell has dissipated I am crossing my fingers..Also tasted it, it doesn't compare to the Woodbridge Cab Cauv we capped off with , but I didn't expect it to , doesn't taste like vinegar though .
George I appreciate your offer to taste etc..We are 2 hours from your shop. I actually have been there twice. I now know your hours though. I love this site , that is how we found your shop. My husband spoke to you on Thurs, we were planning to see you on Sat AM,but we were so anxious to get started we drove over on Friday, and missed you. I drove back over a week later, arrived Monday AM and missed you again. Anyway I will get it right next time!!
The Merlot is the Napa Estate Series, they suggest aging 3 years..We want to purchase some testing equipment, so that we can baby it along and hopefully get a better result. I have been reading everything I can find on the subject.We have jumped in full force, I really hope the first batch is OK..we never do anything on a small scale. We have 4 kits going now. We will be racking a Pinot Noir tonight for the secondary fermentation. I think we will pull it out of thewine cellar and turn on the cooler for the others.
Thanks again, Judy
geocorn
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Who suggested you age your Merlot 3 years? That is somewhat beyond the norm. The longest aging recommendation I have seen Winexpert publish is 1 year for their new crushendo kit. I have their product guide it recommends 6-12 months for all of the Estate series. Don't get me wrong, you can age them longer, but your Merlot will be ready within a year.
Judy,<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
Glad to hear that you have saved the Cab...hate to see good wine go to waste! Sounds like you have caught the fever of wine making and are jumping in full force. Forum sites are a great resource of information and help because of the wealth of knowledge and experience of the people who post on them. Having a supplier like George nearby is also a huge plus with his knowledge, pricing of products and customer service.
I still consider myself a novice Vintner because I have yet to make wine from grapes...but it is a goal for later this year!
amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />Glad to hear that you have saved the Cab...hate to see good wine go to waste! Sounds like you have caught the fever of wine making and are jumping in full force. Forum sites are a great resource of information and help because of the wealth of knowledge and experience of the people who post on them. Having a supplier like George nearby is also a huge plus with his knowledge, pricing of products and customer service.
I still consider myself a novice Vintner because I have yet to make wine from grapes...but it is a goal for later this year!
geocorn
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Tjah,
The more I think about your Cab, the more I think your smell was a combination of the yeast and CO2. I have encountered several kits this year where the wine was not stirred enough, and as a a result, still had excess CO2. It will affect both the flavor and the smell.
The best way that I have found to identify this problem is to pour a small glass of your wine. Take sip of the wine and make a mental note of how it tastes and smells. The wait 30 minutes and and try again. If the taste and smell has improved, it is most likely from too much CO2. If the wine is still in the carboy, stir it vigously (or use one of the stirrers that attach to your power drill). If you do have excess CO2, the stirring will produce a foamy layer on the top of your wine. Stir daily until your wine quits foaming, usually 3 days is all you need.
Take heart, next to sanitization, this is the number one problem that home wine makers encounter. If you do not have a Fizz-X or Whip de-gasser, I would strongly suggest you purchase one on your next trip to the home wine making store. They are a tremendous asset.
The more I think about your Cab, the more I think your smell was a combination of the yeast and CO2. I have encountered several kits this year where the wine was not stirred enough, and as a a result, still had excess CO2. It will affect both the flavor and the smell.
The best way that I have found to identify this problem is to pour a small glass of your wine. Take sip of the wine and make a mental note of how it tastes and smells. The wait 30 minutes and and try again. If the taste and smell has improved, it is most likely from too much CO2. If the wine is still in the carboy, stir it vigously (or use one of the stirrers that attach to your power drill). If you do have excess CO2, the stirring will produce a foamy layer on the top of your wine. Stir daily until your wine quits foaming, usually 3 days is all you need.
Take heart, next to sanitization, this is the number one problem that home wine makers encounter. If you do not have a Fizz-X or Whip de-gasser, I would strongly suggest you purchase one on your next trip to the home wine making store. They are a tremendous asset.
