H2s

[nicklausjames]

I have a barolo and amarosso juice bucket that just finished primary. I did not add nutrient and both now have a h2s smell. Please I know, lesson learned.

Anyways I'm now concerned with correcting it. I'd prefer not to use copper sulfate. I was thinking of going to Home Depot tomorrow and getting a PVC pipe and some steel woolish product and pouring the wine to.

Another option would be filtering it but I just started malolactic. Will his be effected?

 

[dralarms]

Splash rack it several times and then smell.

 

[Runningwolf]

I'm not sure what steel wool and pvc would do? Splash racking will add oxygen. I only use copper sulfate. If you're worried about it you could use bentonite afterwards. Did you already try stirring with a copper pipe?

 

[sour_grapes]

If it won't be too late, you can get Reduless from MoreWine! : http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/11444//Reduless_-_3_g

 

[randomhero]

I just had an issue with h2s and added the proper amount and then add the proper amount of ascorbic acid. That took care of it in an hour. It was amazing!

 

[deRicardo]

Reduless, stirring with a clean, sanitized copper tube, or dropping in a sanitized solid copper scrubbing pad from the grocery store will take care of it rather quickly.

Of course Reduless is the proper solution, designed specifically for your issue. I recommend leaving the wine as is and under an air lock and ordering Reduless with quick shipment from some place like morewinemaking.com.

 

[nicklausjames]

Ok I ordered the reduless. Hopefully it will arrive next week. I think I will use that than maybe splash rack it under a vacuum.

I stirred with a copper pipe for 10 mins, no change this morning.

Will the reduless or splash racking effect mlf?

Finally how long do I have before I have a more serious problem, I just pressed 3-4 days ago?

 

[Turock]

I REALLY wish all of us experienced winemakers would stop telling people to use copper pipes, copper wire or pennies to cure H2S issues! It is a BAD practice because you can add toxic amounts of copper to a wine. Remember--wine has acid in it and reacts to the copper.

ALWAYS use Redulees when you have post-ferment H2S problems because it has only a NOMINAL amount of copper in it to resolve the problem. If the H2S is severe, and the Redulees doesn't cure it, then you go to copper sulfate.

We should teach GOOD practices to new people, instead of teaching DIY practices.

 

[deRicardo]

I REALLY wish all of us experienced winemakers would stop telling people to use copper pipes, copper wire or pennies to cure H2S issues! It is a BAD practice because you can add toxic amounts of copper to a wine. Remember--wine has acid in it and reacts to the copper.

ALWAYS use Redulees when you have post-ferment H2S problems because it has only a NOMINAL amount of copper in it to resolve the problem. If the H2S is severe, and the Redulees doesn't cure it, then you go to copper sulfate.

We should teach GOOD practices to new people, instead of teaching DIY practices.

As an obviously experienced wine maker you have made some good points. Reduless is the best choice by far but it is a relatively new product.

Before it was available, the major treatment for H2S was with copper or copper sulfate. Back in those "old days" wine makers of small batches often cured H2S by racking through a clean, sanitized copper pipe or stirring it with a copper pipe, then splash racking.

You wrote of copper being toxic. Copper sulfate? For solving this problem, over dosing with copper sulfate can become dangerous and not just ruin a wine but turn it into a poison very quickly.

Pennies aren't practical for curing a carboy loaded with H2S, but they work great for testing for it. A couple clean, shinny pennies in a cup of that wine, stirred for several minutes then smelled will tell you right away if the problem is really H2S and not something more severe.

People have been making wine for years and years and they have not always had a pot-load of chemicals to solve every problem. I have a very old neighbor who makes 5 barrels of wine each year exactly like his grandfather taught him many years ago. He doesn't use any chemicals of any kind but makes some very nice wines. He has no idea what SO2 is. Sure, now we know that's not the best way, but it has worked for centuries and still works.

Again, I also would use Reduless, but if I didn't have any and I were in a hurry, I wouldn't hesitate to use my sanitized copper pipe. I used a copper pipe before Reduless was something I knew about and the wine turned out just fine. It is surprising how well it works.

 

[NYCWINO]

Reduless, stirring with a clean, sanitized copper tube, or dropping in a sanitized solid copper scrubbing pad from the grocery store will take care of it rather quicklyeduless with quick shipment from some place like morewinemaking.com.

NEWSFLASH: You are not only getting copper in a scrubbie (if any at all) but chromium, molybdenum, nickel for sure, cadmium from slag waste, and likely other tocic metals. (they are mostly made in P.R. China) Majority of components is steel, not copper.
Copper is too soft and malleable to work in a scrubbing pad, nevermind way too expensive. NOT... I repeat NOT a wise idea.

AFAIK, the only reasonably pure copper (Not even piping) is used for copper braid wicks which are for soaking up and removing molten solder. Not cheap, but reasonably pure grade of copper. High grade copper wire may also be OK.
Also, don't use a penny as it has many other potentially toxic metals.

 

[sour_grapes]

What makes you think that copper piping is not pure? They contain something like 0.04% phosphorous.

What makes you think a penny contains "many" other metals? The core is zinc, but the cladding is copper.

 

[Turock]

People used to eat off pewter dishes and drink from leaded glass until they found out they were poisoning themselves. It has nothing to do with the "purity" of the copper. The whole issue revolves around the fact that you DON'T know how much copper your putting into the wine with a pipe, wire or pennies. But you DO know the level of copper when using Redulees.

 

[NYCWINO]

What makes you think that copper piping is not pure? They contain something like 0.04% phosphorous.

What makes you think a penny contains "many" other metals? The core is zinc, but the cladding is copper.

Correction accepted. Over the years different metals including nickel, and bronze and zinc have been used. Recently only zinc and some copper. After plating is removed the zinc is there. I don't really feel safe ingesting zinc salts, which may remain soluble. Not safe to use acidic food in galvanized vessels, for that reason.

It has nothing to do with the "purity" of the copper. The whole issue revolves around the fact that you DON'T know how much copper your putting into the wine with a pipe, wire or pennies. But you DO know the level of copper when using Redulees.

I agree, but the toxicity and purity is in addition to the point you make about copper itself.

 

[nicklausjames]

Thx everyone. Will using reduless have any effect on mlf?

 

[Turock]

You mean using it to treat the wine before MLF? I don't think it will. Let's face it--you HAVE to deal with the H2S issue first or else this wine will develop mercaptans. You will have to rack off the Redulees after treating. So since you are in a low SO2 situation, be very careful not to splash rack and keep the carboy topped up to keep it protected from oxygen.

A little more info on copper that I neglected to talk about. I'm not in any way opposed to using a piece of copper to VERIFY H2S issues when it is undected by aroma and the wine is exhibiting the faults of the oxidation of mercaptans. It can be used as a bench test. But when the aroma is SO eveident, there's no need to confirm thru the "penny test."

 

[nicklausjames]

Not exactly, basically I already started mlf. So I'm wondering if I treat w reduless I will have to restart mlf. I have the wine in a conical so in terms of racking I would just open the lower valve and dump the junk.

 

[JohnT]

so, in summary (and adding my own bit of advise)..


1) try a splash racking first. H2S is detectable by 50% of humans at a level of .0047 parts per million. A splash racking is ideal for these low concentrations.

2) try redueless. Follow the directions carefully and go with the medium dosage.

3) If you must use copper sulfate, perform a bench trial so you can identify the minimum concentration to add to your wine.

4) if you wait too long, and the HS2 becomes bounded (Mercaptans - where a burnt rubber smell is detected), then you need to two step it. First add a dose of ascorbic acid to convert the mercaptans back into H2S, then add either your redueless or copper sulfate.

 

[Turock]

There is a thread under general winemaking where Maty asked about the issue you are facing--undergoing an MLF while having a H2S issue. I told her to call Scott Labs and they recommended daily stirring--just be sure not to whip O2 into it--and just let the MLF proceed. And if you still detect H2S, then treat with Redulees once the MLF is complete.

Be aware that just because you DON'T smell the H2S that it is all gone. Slight H2S may not present as odor but it can still be there and cause fault in the wine down the road. So you might want to be sure you use some Redulees on it once the MLF is done.

 

[nicklausjames]

I just want to b!tch a little about the post office. I ordered the reduless Thursday. I ordered it from a place about 1.5 hours drive from my house because I thought it would be received faster. I paid more for priority mail and honestly expected to receive it in a day or 2. I checked the tracking and it was shipped from ct to ma to nj and finally should arrive to me in ny today. I mean this reduless really got the grand tour of the northeast via usps.