RJ Spagnols Grand Cru Merlot 2007 - New to Forum

[pioneergirl]

Greetings, I have finally graduated to wine making after years of the family hunting, fishing, gathering/foraging, growing a backyard garden....Each year we learn to become more self reliant and really enjoy our food and drink.

After much thought, we decided to purchase a "lower end" kit to start our winemaking adventures. (I originally wanted to start off with an old vine zin). But, in the end, my husband convinced me that if this wine came out the same, or better, than Black Box, we were all good.....True That!

I also have some slight sensitivities that I haven't got all figured out. At first I thought it was sulfites (which I am allergic to), but now I am thinking I actually have a histimine intolerance; which has also jumpstarted the winemaking adventure -- after a visit to a local winery for a tasting, which resulted in me becoming totally incapacitated (blinding, all night lasting headache that no medication on hand would relieve) after not even 2 glasses worth of different wines from cask to bottle.

RJ Spagnols Grand Cru Merlot - 2007 was made last night - mostly according to directions. I asked hubby to purchase french oak chips because my research revealed lower tannins than american oak. I switched out the oak and doubled that was included in batch which amounted to adding 2 oz of french oak. Directions said to steep oak chips in 1c hot water - since I doubled chips I doubled water. there were no specific instructions on when to add steeped chips and whether to add with or without the water. So, after dissolving benzonite, I poured the whole thing into bucket. Then added necessary water, stirring and yeast and capped. IG reading was 1.09 at top end; I'm good with that.

Right now sitting in house at approximately 68 degrees. My plan is to let it just sit there for 2 weeks; nothing more and check on it then. The feedback I am looking for is on the oak chips; do I leave in / transfer when I rack? or discard or add new? Also, feedback on others experience with this kit? quality? Any suggestions to improve quality during racking stage(s)? I haven't decided if i am going to rack 2 x - just haven't thought about it that far yet. Probably won't bulk age in carboy becuase I'd like to start another batch - but looking for feedback on any "minimum" time to leave/bulk age in carboy to maximize quality. thanks!

 

[robie]

Greetings, I have finally graduated to wine making after years of the family hunting, fishing, gathering/foraging, growing a backyard garden....Each year we learn to become more self reliant and really enjoy our food and drink.

After much thought, we decided to purchase a "lower end" kit to start our winemaking adventures. (I originally wanted to start off with an old vine zin). But, in the end, my husband convinced me that if this wine came out the same, or better, than Black Box, we were all good.....True That!

I also have some slight sensitivities that I haven't got all figured out. At first I thought it was sulfites (which I am allergic to), but now I am thinking I actually have a histimine intolerance; which has also jumpstarted the winemaking adventure -- after a visit to a local winery for a tasting, which resulted in me becoming totally incapacitated (blinding, all night lasting headache that no medication on hand would relieve) after not even 2 glasses worth of different wines from cask to bottle.

RJ Spagnols Grand Cru Merlot - 2007 was made last night - mostly according to directions. I asked hubby to purchase french oak chips because my research revealed lower tannins than american oak. I switched out the oak and doubled that was included in batch which amounted to adding 2 oz of french oak. Directions said to steep oak chips in 1c hot water - since I doubled chips I doubled water. there were no specific instructions on when to add steeped chips and whether to add with or without the water. So, after dissolving benzonite, I poured the whole thing into bucket. Then added necessary water, stirring and yeast and capped. IG reading was 1.09 at top end; I'm good with that.

Right now sitting in house at approximately 68 degrees. My plan is to let it just sit there for 2 weeks; nothing more and check on it then. The feedback I am looking for is on the oak chips; do I leave in / transfer when I rack? or discard or add new? Also, feedback on others experience with this kit? quality? Any suggestions to improve quality during racking stage(s)? I haven't decided if i am going to rack 2 x - just haven't thought about it that far yet. Probably won't bulk age in carboy becuase I'd like to start another batch - but looking for feedback on any "minimum" time to leave/bulk age in carboy to maximize quality. thanks!

Welcome to the forum.

I would make this first kit per instructions and not try to do any tweaking this time around. Changing the oak type is not a big deal.

Sounds like you have a histamine issue. You might do better with white wines than reds.

I have never read about steeping oak in hot water. I guess that would work, it should cause even more oakiness to be extracted.

Oak comes in several different toasts, from light to very heavy (dark toast). Which toast did you buy?

Doubling the oak is a risky thing, if you haven't tried it before. The problem with oak is if you didn't add enough, you can always add more during clearing or bulk aging, but if you added too much, there's not much you can do about it.

If it were me, I would see if I could easily remove about half that oak and save it for after fermentation. After fermentation, you can taste the wine; if it needs more oak, you can add it then. Then, taste it every few weeks to make sure you don't over oak the wine.

I would leave the wine in the carboy an extra month or so, so the sediment will not fall out in your bottles. There is always a little bit more sediment a month or so after the time the kits say you can bottle.

Good luck with your wine making!

 

[cpfan]

pioneergirl

Grand Cru Merlot 2007? That sounds like a VERY old kit.

Never mind, that's the Spagnols product order code (20070).

Perhaps you should do some research on "Red Wine Headache". Wiki (perhaps not the best medical source) has some suggestions about what causes these headaches, and what to do to alleviate them (mostly before drinking).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wine_headache

Steve

 

[Runningwolf]

Pioneergirl, welcome to WMT forum!

 

[Flem]

Welcome to the forum, pioneergirl. Good luck with the headaches!

 

[pioneergirl]

Robie, the french oak chips - my husband bought for me - don't say what the toast is (although I asked for MT). The instruction on the back of that pkg say to use 2-4oz of oak in 5-6 gallons of wine for upto 2 months. no reference here to steep in water. Well, crud...I think I'm just gonna leave the chips right like that for the moment...If I find that I need to open the lid between now and 2 wks, I will fish out the cheescloth wrapped sack I put them in. (it just seemed that the 1/2c of chips provided in original kit seemed so little - and maybe didn't quite equate to 1 ounce?) I think I will for sure remove at racking, then let that sit without any additional chips and go from there. (and maybe in future, not steep in water beforehand)

CP Fan - I totally was concerned about the 2007 "date" on the box too! Sorry, my bad! It was a natual assumption (this being the first time) to read "20070 GC Merlot" to mean it was manufactured in 2007 - oops?! But, the juice tasted fine...so we weren't overly concerned.

Again, another reason for purchasing a (imho) "lower end" kit to try first - in case we make any major errors and to have a reference point in wine kit making.

 

[robie]

Robie, the french oak chips - my husband bought for me - don't say what the toast is (although I asked for MT). The instruction on the back of that pkg say to use 2-4oz of oak in 5-6 gallons of wine for upto 2 months. no reference here to steep in water. Well, crud...I think I'm just gonna leave the chips right like that for the moment...If I find that I need to open the lid between now and 2 wks, I will fish out the cheescloth wrapped sack I put them in. (it just seemed that the 1/2c of chips provided in original kit seemed so little - and maybe didn't quite equate to 1 ounce?) I think I will for sure remove at racking, then let that sit without any additional chips and go from there. (and maybe in future, not steep in water beforehand)

CP Fan - I totally was concerned about the 2007 "date" on the box too! Sorry, my bad! It was a natual assumption (this being the first time) to read "20070 GC Merlot" to mean it was manufactured in 2007 - oops?! But, the juice tasted fine...so we weren't overly concerned.

Again, another reason for purchasing a (imho) "lower end" kit to try first - in case we make any major errors and to have a reference point in wine kit making.

Well, if the instructions on the oak said to use that much, you will likely be just fine. (I just sort of panicked when you doubled the amount.) Oak chips are pretty much used up in 2 months. They will have sunk to the bottom by then, which is an indication they are used up.

At least, when you rack, give the young, tart, green wine a taste to make sure the oak level is good for you. That should be all you need to do.

So, it must have been the kit that said to steep the oak? Maybe that was just for the chips in the kit and maybe since it was such a small amount, they figured steeping it would get more oakiness out. Normally, I wouldn't steep the oak unless the instructions specifically say to do so.

 

[cpfan]

Folks:

The "soaking the oak" comment applies to the oak teabag(s) included in some Grand Cru and Cru Select kits.

The online Grand Cru instructions contain the following statement

Oak chip infusion bag (resembling a tea bag) – If your wine kit does, soak it submersed in 1 cup of hot water for 10 min. Do not open infusion bag. Add water and infusion bag to primary fermenter.

There has been a similar statement in the Grand Cru and Cru Select instructions since I first started doing GC & CS kits (probably Sept 2001)

Steve

 

[EdwardLongshanks]

Pioneer girl this kit (Grand Cru Merlot) was the very first one I ever did. i bottled it back in June and after about 3 months the wine was very delicious. Because It was my first kit I drank it up pretty fast, but I left a few bottles with my dad and around Christmas I opened the last one he had and it was awesome. I used the oak teabag that came with it and soaked it in the primary for the whole 2 weeks before the first racking (as per instructions) the wine had a very nice subtle vanilla finish that I havn't been able to get with heavier oaking on my later kits. I would have recommended staying with the supplied oak, but please let me know how this wine turns out. I would also say the CG kits are a great value across the line.

 

[winemaker_3352]

Welcome aboard!!!

 

[pioneergirl]

Pioneer girl this kit (Grand Cru Merlot) was the very first one I ever did. i bottled it back in June and after about 3 months the wine was very delicious. Because It was my first kit I drank it up pretty fast, but I left a few bottles with my dad and around Christmas I opened the last one he had and it was awesome. I used the oak teabag that came with it and soaked it in the primary for the whole 2 weeks before the first racking (as per instructions) the wine had a very nice subtle vanilla finish that I havn't been able to get with heavier oaking on my later kits. I would have recommended staying with the supplied oak, but please let me know how this wine turns out. I would also say the CG kits are a great value across the line.

Wow! this is good news. I just couldn't help myself I guess with those little oak chips! It just seemed that the 1/2cups worth in the "teabag" couldn't have been enough. I have to say that the difference in aroma between the 2 types was noticeable. What was in the kit smelled to me like redwood chips (wood; couldn't smell anything else), while the french oak chips we purchased separately had a much milder aroma to them; it was hardly woody smelling and smelled more (dare I say) vanilla-y or something else I can't quite name - just aromatic. And I went for it with the doubling --- I definitely will let you all know what I pick up in tasting as I go along. I have resigned myself to "drink no wine before June/July"!

I am glad to hear the feedback on the quality/value aspect of this wine, because we do a lot of socializing, and now that the word is out that we are brewing both beer and wine - there has already been quite the demand (with summer around the corner and all). Would you be able to provide a comparison to your 3 month aged and 6 month aged wine to a commercial wine?
Carolyn

 

[AlexPKeaton]

Making the same kit right now. It's my second, after the Mosti Mondiale kit we started two weeks ago.

Already planning our next in a few weeks when we bottle the Mosti kit and have a free carboy...................

 

[pioneergirl]

This morning we opened the lid and took a sample and the SG was 1.022. It was bubbling all over the top. Gave it a quick stir and put the lid back on. Looking over the instructions it says the SG should be at .998 or lower at stabilizing and clearing....So we are on track.

I have another thread going on under the beginners area about the debate my husband and I were having about the level of acitivity during the primary fermentation -- so I will be posing an update there and another question about the specific yeast packet that was included in my grand cru kit - which was an EC-1118 Lalvin -- and the feedback my husband received at our local brew store regarding this yeast...

 

[pioneergirl]

Just a quick update : Last Sunday night we racked the wine into a glass carboy after adding the packets included and following directions. It is settling out nicely. I will rack again after this as I have seen others make reference to in order to clear and degas any more that it might have to. It is being held at approximately 65 degrees in the laundry room. I had to top off with quite a bit of wine (imo). I had to pour 2 bottles in; but oh well, I will just pour back out into 2 bottles. Just wasn't expecting that much.

 

[cpfan]

pioneergirl...

The wine will be more difficult to degas at 65F than at 74F. If possible, get the temperature up for degassing.

Steve

 

[pioneergirl]

Hmmmmm.Okay. I will have to get my husband to move that darn thing back into the "common" area where it is warmer (I am currently using the heating pad for seed starting). I also puchased some additional pott. metasulf. because I believe that I will need to add some more when I rack this baby again in a week or so. I want to keep in the carboy for another 3-4 weeks for additional aging/degassing. Also, what are anyone thoughts about adding additional oak chips or spiral at this point? I haven't tasted since racking - and it was hard to tell because so "green". I just haven't researched that far ahead yet - just keeping mental notes from things I read in feeds here so far. I will devote some time on this later this week.

Which brings me to another topic. How lame am I? I can not seem to see a "search" field at the top of this website. I have wanted to search a few times some topics like adding additional sulfite - but don't know how or where to do this?

 

[pioneergirl]

I found the search tab!

 

[pioneergirl]

Alright --- be kind to me -- I think I am totally f-ing this one up. Today I racked it the second time - into bucket, cleaned out the 6 gallon glass carboy and syphoned back into it. I then added (more) oak chips back into it tested the ph at 3.2 (all I have are those little pH strips) and added isinglass to further clear. It tastes fine in the sense that its not awful; but very dry; like it should have more sweetness or definitely less tartness. Or maybe a bit of both.

I am trying to be optimistic, but I definitely think it should taste a little sweeter than it does right now -- anyone feel this way before? At worst I will rack again in a couple of weeks to just get those chips out - I don't know....I am just very nervous right now.

 

[cpfan]

Alright --- be kind to me -- I think I am totally f-ing this one up. Today I racked it the second time - into bucket, cleaned out the 6 gallon glass carboy and syphoned back into it. I then added (more) oak chips back into it tested the ph at 3.2 (all I have are those little pH strips) and added isinglass to further clear. It tastes fine in the sense that its not awful; but very dry; like it should have more sweetness or definitely less tartness. Or maybe a bit of both.

I am trying to be optimistic, but I definitely think it should taste a little sweeter than it does right now -- anyone feel this way before? At worst I will rack again in a couple of weeks to just get those chips out - I don't know....I am just very nervous right now.

Personally, I don't think that a Merlot should have any sweetness. Tartness could be CO2, how well did you degas? (and what was the temperature of the wine when you degassed?)

Steve

 

[Flem]

I agree with Steve, there should be no sweetness. The tartness could be because this is a very, very young wine which tends to be a little harsh. It won't start getting real good for at least a year. I've had a couple bottles of my one year old merlot and it's still not ready yet. Not bad, but not quite ready. Good Luck!