Glass marbles, how to tell not leaded

[seth8530]

Seth, clearly stainless steel is used widely in the food industry from cookware, to utensils. And, in fact, wine is stored in stainless steel when not in barrels. However, there are different grades of stainless steel depending primarily on the ratio of chromium to nickel. There are also different types of stainless steel. So the answer is sometimes. For example, I have stainless steel appliances and wouldn't want to leave red red wine dripping on them for 6 months. Also, I don't know why, but I think it could leave a metallic taste.

Tony P.

So i guess the question we need to ask is whether or not different grades of stainless act differently in wine.I personally want to say it should not make a difference because I believe that most grades of stainless have enough in common to where they should act in a similar manner. With stainless characteristic possibly increasing with increased chromium if I am to trust my intuition.

 

[saramc]

I know MarbleKing in the US makes 100% lead free marbles, but one would need to check with them re: food grade. http://www.marblekingusa.com/Home_Page.php

Just spoke to MarbleKingUSA, and they said their clear marbles are appropriate for use in the case of volume adjustment in winemaking. They knew exactly what I was talking about.
Prices are as follows and do not include shipping:
9/16” ~3000pc in 25# carton for $36
5/8” ~2100pc in 25# carton for $29.40
¾” ~1300pc in 25# carton for $39.00

 

[BobF]

Great info sara!

 

[BeerAlchemist]

Seth, clearly stainless steel is used widely in the food industry from cookware, to utensils. And, in fact, wine is stored in stainless steel when not in barrels. However, there are different grades of stainless steel depending primarily on the ratio of chromium to nickel. There are also different types of stainless steel. So the answer is sometimes. For example, I have stainless steel appliances and wouldn't want to leave red red wine dripping on them for 6 months. Also, I don't know why, but I think it could leave a metallic taste.

Tony P.

This is why I stipulated 316 SS, I was reading that 304 can slowly pit out over time due to level of sulfite wine makers use. However, 316 is highly resistant to sulfite.

 

[seth8530]

Ok so it seems sulfite resistant stainless and certain qualified marbles are the way to go if you ask me.

 

[Deezil]

Thanks for the discussion guys - gotta love finding (as a whole), quality answers

 

[TonyP]

Ok so it seems HDPE balls are the way for me. Here's an interesting link to a forum question on stainless steel and k-meta

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f6/accidental-k-meta-experiment-33946/


Tony

 

[BeerAlchemist]

Ok so it seems HDPE balls are the way for me. Here's an interesting link to a forum question on stainless steel and k-meta

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f6/accidental-k-meta-experiment-33946/


Tony

Are you quoting yourself

304 and 316 SS both have 18% chromium; however, professional wineries use the more expensive 316 stainless because of its higher resistance to pitting. Particularly they use 316 in areas exposed to the gas as that is much more corrosive, so things like lids will be 316. I believe the difference is the added Molybdenum.

"A 20% concentration of sulphur dioxide dissolved in water at 20 degC can be expected to give a corrosion rate between 0.1 and 1.0 mm/year on 304 types, but a rate below 0.1mm/year on 316 types and hence is 'mildly' corrosive."
http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=37

Now me not liking to add anything into a system doesn't need to be there, I'm not even happy with that .1mm a year as that means the metal is not passivating and the sulfides are continually etching a new surface and something is ultimately going into solution. I'm hesitant to use HDPE for two reasons, it can hold onto odors and they will get scratched up and become a nice way to innoculate my wine with undesirables, I would be much happier with a PET ball if it is available. So, for me, I would ideally use something like borosilicate glass marbles if I could find them, or some other food safe glass.

 

[TonyP]

Clearly it's not likely we'll drink enough wine for this to be an issue. But I'd still like to get to the best answer. Putting wine in a glass for 10 minutes strikes me as a lot different than putting marbles in carboy for a year. In spite of what's been said above, I can't believe there is such a thing as food grade marbles and I'm concerned about more than lead, for example cracking.

Alternatively, HDPE balls are available that must meet FDA food quality standards. PET and HDPE products are used now in wine making (for example: BetterBottles, primary buckets) and are prevalent many beverages. At 10 cents each or less, they cost less than marbles or SS balls.

Tony P.

 

[BobF]

I wonder if the same level of concern exists about the content of the *glass* carboys that the *glass* marbles are being added to.

Maybe sara will contact the carboy mfrs for us

 

[TonyP]

BeerAlchemist, hopefully no. All I meant to do was mention an ancillary forum topic I thought might be of interest. Consider posting on the other topic, as well, as you probably know more about SS than I do.
Tony P.

 

[BeerAlchemist]

Yeah, I'm not too worried about such things. Clear glass really gives me little to be worried about as long as its lead free. I just figure over time the glass would be less costly as they should last much longer. Or perhaps I will just use 5 gallon BB's and save enough in other containers to top off and never worry about this .

 

[BeerAlchemist]

BeerAlchemist, hopefully no. All I meant to do was mention an ancillary forum topic I thought might be of interest. Consider posting on the other topic, as well, as you probably know more about SS than I do.
Tony P.

I was just teasing...I can't say I'm anywhere near an expert, just what I have learned over a decade of brewing is enough to get me in the right direction for pulling research...everything with wine is new so figuring out the whole SO2 thing was news to me too. Good idea to post that over there too, perhaps help someone doing a search down the road. Cheers.

 

[Grasshopper]

Floaters v Sinkers

Although I am a bit late in reading this thread, let me add my $0.02 on the subject of floating vs. sinking spheres for minimizing oxidation.

The oxygen in the air above the wine is not the problem per se (assuming it stays in the air which it doesn’t). It is the oxygen that is dissolved in the wine that oxides it. How quickly the oxygen in the air will dissolve depends on a) the concentration of oxygen in the air, and b) the surface area of the wine-air interface. How much oxygen is available to dissolve depends on how much air is available as does how quickly the oxygen concentration in the air will decrease as oxygen is dissolved in the liquid. The addition of floating or sinking spheres addresses both the surface area and the air quantity issues. Adding sufficient sinking spheres to force the liquid into the neck of the carboy significantly reduces surface area and the volume of air space. I don’t think floating spheres will reduce the surface area as much and I have doubts that the area reduction is as effective as the spheres are free to move or rotate (e.g. caused by vibration or release of CO2) to expose fresh surface. You might be able to get as many cc’s of floaters as sinkers into the carboy to give an equal reduction in air quantity but this won’t be true for all sphere diameters. Thus I think sinkers are the better choice and if you want to be really anal, you can use a can of inert gas to sweep the air out of the neck.

 

[TonyP]

Good points, Grassy. I agree with it all.
Tony P.

 

[robie]

you can use a can of inert gas to sweep the air out of the neck.

Inert gas works very well, but one can't depend on it unless it is reapplied at regular intervals.

 

[Floandgary]

My thinking is that their will not be any leaching at all. No matter how much time passes. Btw, fun fact.. Glass is not crystalline at all. Else you would not be able to see thru it. However, I am not sure on what is the naming distinction between crystalline and regular glass.

Do believe that the "crystalline" designation refers to the common usage of leaded glass,,,,, Crystal-cutware, chandeliers, faux jewelry, etc.