WineXpert General Questions from a Newbie

[David219]

I have been making wine from Winexpert kits for about 6 months. I have made, or am in the process of making, 5 kits. My first kit was an Island Mist Blackberry Cab. I entered it in the Indy International Wine Competition and was awarded a Silver Medal. I followed the directions to the letter.

My second kit was an Australian Cab/Shiraz. Having had such apparent success with my first kit, I did the same as with the first and followed the instructions to the letter. My realization of where I am on the learning curve with my new hobby started here. The wine appeared clear to me at the time of bottling, but is somewhat "gassy" when poured... probably from inadequate de-gassing or just not being patient enough (?).

I have subsequently made Luna Rossa, New Zealand Pinot Noir, and Italian Pinot Grigio kits. I have read a number of comments in different threads on bulk aging. My first question is: would it be OK to rack half of a six gallon batch into a three gallon carboy to bulk age some of the wine and bottle the rest? This would allow me to sample a number of bottles over time of a kit, enjoying the fruit of my labors, while "saving" some back in bulk for future bottling. Is there a time period where bulk aged wine takes a "step back" due to bottle shock after bottling where you need to allow time for bottle aging?

I use iodine for disinfection. I have read a number of opinions that rinsing after disinfection is not a good idea. Is this true for the use of iodine also? I have routinely been rinsing after disinfection with hot tap water.

Thanks in advance for any responses. I am really excited about learning the nuances of making really good wine!

 

[diggerdan17]

I routinely Bottle 4 750 ml bottles and bulk age the remaining in a 5 gallon carboy for 8-12 months.This gives me the opportunity to sample a bottle while leaving the rest untouched until its actually ready to be enjoyed .Many of my first kits turned out gassy and fizzy because i didn,t spend enough time degassing and in my opinion some kit instructions do not ask you to degass long enough to rid your wine of trapped co2.Raising your wine to 75 degrees before degassing is a MUST to ensure your co2 will leave your wine.If you have some bottles that are gassy get a vacuvin and open them and suck the co2 out before you serve.


good luck

 

[cpfan]

David219:


Iodophor when used at the proper concentrattion is a no-rinse sanitizer. I try shake any excess off before using the item


Steve

 

[David219]

Thank you for your responses. Diggerdan, how do you raise the temperature of the wine? My basement ambient temp ranges from 64-68 degrees. The wines have been consistently between 66-74 degrees (during the summer/fall and depending on the stage), however now that it is winter, the Pinot Grigio I have clearing has gotten down to 63 degrees. I have read that whites might do better in cooler temps, so I wasn't too concerned, but I have hesitated to start a red in the winter due to the colder temps.

cpfan, what is the proper concentration for iodophor? I have honestly just been going by the color of the solution.

Thanks again!

 

[Runningwolf]

David you want to use a brew belt to increase your temperature. Its nice as your concentrating only on one carboy instead of an entire area to heat.

 

[cpfan]

cpfan, what is the proper concentration for iodophor? I have honestly just been going by the color of the solution.

It should be on the bottle of concentrate. I use 1 ml per litre. But as the iodine dissipates out of solution and the colour weakens, I add a little iodophor to the working solution to bring the colour back.


Steve

 

[David219]

Thank you, Steve. I'll double check my bottle. I don't remember seeing a concentration recommendation listed. I have probably been using a bit higher concentration just with eyeball measuring of the volumes of iodine, water, and the resulting color.

 

[ibglowin]

Just wanted to stop by this thread and say welcome to the FVW forums and glad you found us and this new hobby/obsession!

 

[David219]

Thank you, Mike!

I checked the iodophor bottle and there are a couple concentration recommendations listed for 12.5ppm and 25ppm titratable iodine, with a notation that as long as the solution is amber color, there is sufficient iodine to sanitize. I just needed to keep reading, because just beneath that sentence is "Homebrew Solution" recommending 1tsp to 1.5gal water. I'll be more careful to use that exact concentration, especially if rinsing is not advisable.

Do you rinse bottles once sanitized?

 

[ibglowin]

Most people use a Sulfite solution just before bottling and then hang them on the bottle tree to drain while you finish getting ready to bottle.

 

[David219]

Thank you, Mike, and everyone for all your advice!

 

[wjdonahue]

As tot he temp for fermentation, remember that the temp of the fermenting must is always higher than the ambient temperature. In the case of vigorisly fermenting reds it can be quite a few degrees higher. I always use a floating thermometer and record the exact temp of the must, never the room temperature. Most wineries ferment reds in a jacketed primary so that they can lower the temp.
As a general rule the lower the fermentatino temperature, the fruitier and more pronounced the nose, and the more fruit and cleaner the taste of the finished wine. Thes depends a lot on the yeast used since each yeast has an optimum range which should always be dept in mind. Too high a temp produces more esters, aldehydes, ketones, etc. that can affect the taste from that of the true grape taste (often wanted in reds, but not in whites.) Since I like my wines fruit forward, I usually ferment at the lower end of the yeast's temp optimums. On another forum, I corresponded with a guy from CA who always ferments his whites in the 50 degree range, and he ALWAYS earns golds in competition with his whites, and has been named as Wine Maker's Winemaker of the Year.
After talking to him, I did a little test.......fermented two batches of indentical Viogner juice at 68* and 55*. In competition (4 total) the one at 68* averaged 16.2 (Davis Scale) while the one at 55* averaged 18.1. So maybe he is on to something even though the 55* was below the optimum range for the yeast (Fermicru 4F9).

 

[Wade E]

Very true and Ive been cool fermenting fruit wines and whites wines for almost as long as Ive been making wine. Reds from grapes I ferment much warmer to draw out more tannins and not be so fruity. Remember this isnt true for kits as the way they are processed cool fermenting wont do much if anything except for cause fermenting problems.

 

[wjdonahue]

Wade..this used to be true when the kits were more concentrate based, but isn't true with many of the current kits that have more of the solids and precursors left in them, esp the AJ kits. These are almost like free run juice that has been stabilized. Most of the esters, aldehydes and voitiles are still there, and can benefit from cooler fermentation. Using GO Ferm for rehydration, and ENDOFERM for fermentation will ensure a vigouous fermentation, even at the lower temps. LALVIN now even has a WARNING on their website about using urea based nutrients, especially during the rehydration and activation phases of the yeast.....toxic to the yeast. Lower temps with urea based nutrients can cause selection of certain cells during early fermentation and can result in stuck fermentation if not enough cells survive.

 

[Bartman]

It's your party, so you should do what you want, but I have to say this sort of adjustments to the juice, yeast, and fermenting conditions are the sort of manipulations that I personally dislike about commercial winemaking practices.

Perhaps my tastes are not as sophisticated as others, but my enjoyment of any wine (my own or others) is enhanced by knowing that the juice was fermented with as little manipulation as possible. To me, fewer additives of all kinds (clarifying agents, energizers, flavorings, etc.) is a more satisfying "authentic" wine. The naturally-occurring differences in local growing conditions, environmental yeast, and ambient fermenting temperatures (among other factors) have led to unique differentiation of wines around the world. Why not appreciate those distinctions and let nature take its course with the juice you have?

 

[wjdonahue]

Definitely agree with you........variety is what makes wine such a joy. Same juice, different cellarmaster = different wine. But you have to remember that kits, with the possible exception of AJ kits, are processed, and the result is that sometimes nutrients are decreased. And using packaged yeast (Lavlin, DSM, etc.) aren't the same as natural yeasts, you need to get them working to ensure a vigorous fermentation. While I agree with you totally on the varieth, I still want to use the healthiest yeast for the best wine. But the bottom line is thank god for the individual cellarmaster.

 

[Wade E]

Most kits have not changed. I think the only products out there you are referring to are the Mosti All juice products. All others really with maybe the exception of that US winery juice if tats even still available are still h=as concentrated as ever with grape skin packs to go with them but they make an excellent wine so dont get me wrong on that.

 

[JordanPond]

I read an article by WineXpert's Tim Vandergrift and he suggested that their kits be fermented, stabilized, and cleared at a constant 75 degrees. Many of the troubles wine makers withdegassing are caused by not keeping the temp up. Cooler liquids hold more disolved gas. My first two kits were tough to degass and after bottling my first kit it is still gassy. I know I did not do a good job of maintaining the temps at the recommended level. I am monitoring my current kits much closer and have added a couple of brew belts to my tool box. We'll see how the degassing goes on these.

 

[ibglowin]

Hey Jordan,

Welcome to the FVW forums!

You are spot on when you say keeping the temps up will aid in degassing your wine. Besides warm temps you need the right tools such as a Mix-stir bit that goes on the end of a drill. Lastly a Vacuvin placed into the top of an S shaped airlock will work wonders to literally pull out any residual CO2.

Then of course add some time on top of that. Proper degassing is critical before you bottle. If you bottle your wine and it has residual CO2 in it, its not going to go anywhere no matter how long you wait to drink it.

 

[wjdonahue]

Welcome Jordan.....Just don't let us confuse you too much. Winemaking, even from kits is part science, and part art form. All of us have our preferred ways of doing things, but that doesn't always mean we are right.
Last year I had an interresting conversation at a KOV meeting at Ironstone Winery about the instructions that come with wine kits with a couple of Guys from WineExpert. I think Tim was one of them. They admitted that the instructions aren't necessarily the way to make the best wine, even from their kits, but rather the way that will allow the highest number of successful good wines with the least number of problems. We talked a lot about fermentation temp, esp in whites, and they agreed that low and slow will produce a fruitier wine with more bouquet, and a more delicate white to boot. But the reason isn't because of the precursors (more juice vs. concentrate) as much as it is the effect of the temp on the yeasts. Although yeast will produce ketones, esters, aldehydes, etc. at all temps, the amounts of each of these chemicals produced does differ with different temperatures, and has an overall effect on the flavors and bouquets of the finished wine. The higher the temperature, exp on whites, the "muddier" the wine. If you are new to winemaking, then I agree that you should ferment in the low 70 range like the instructions recommend so that you have less chance for something to go wrong. I just finished a power point on yeasts and what actually goes on during fermentation, and I will try to get in on here for everyone. It s for a judging class we will be holding this spring getting ready for our big competition in the fall. Once you have really gotten comfortable with your results, however, you might want to start experimenting, i.e with fermentation temps to get the exact profile that you like.
Another interresting fact that came out of the conversation was that although the kit makers do most of their volume in the Canadian market, the types of kits that are sold is different in the US and Canada. For some reason, most of the high end kits are actually sold in the US, with much less of a market share in the Canadian market. Canadians buy more of the lower end, quick to drink kits than they do the high end, longer ageing kits. Guess we just have a lot more "wine snobs" in the US. (grin)
As for the degassing problems, I definitely agree with ibglowin that temp and the right tools are important. If the wine has either fermented or aged at a lower temperature, it should be raised to about 75 degrees for the degassing ( I let mine rest at the 75* temp for about 48 hrs). Although more CO2 will be in the wine at the lower temp, it will become a supersaturated solution at the higher temp, and will come out much quicker. Just be careful that you run your mix stir slower to start with or you might have an explosion with the first turn. I still prefer the mix stir for all my wines, even those from grapes. Tried the newer whips, and all they did was make a mess for me.
Again welcome, and good luck with your wines. There isn't anything more satisfying that drinking a good wine with a good meal, and being able to say "I made that!"