Gelatin filtering - a better f-pac?

Discussion in 'General Wine Making Forum' started by Stressbaby, Aug 25, 2013.

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  1. Aug 25, 2013 #1

    Stressbaby

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    I have the need for some special extracts. I have a lemongrass wine to which I wanted to add some coconut. I have a banana wine which needs a little more banana. I've tried f-pacs but they always seemed to cloud the wine again, and that wouldn't work with coconut anyway. There are commercial extracts, but the banana and coconut are both "imitation" with no banana or coconut in them at all.

    Then I found this technique called gelatin filtering. Links here and here and here. So I decided to give it a try. I'm almost finished with my third batch and it works! The thing I like is that it uses the original ingredient and yields a crystal clear syrupy extract. I'm posting my results here with pics in case anyone wants to try it.

    The basic steps, which can be tweaked:
    Prepare 2 cups of "stock." Split in half and heat one half. Sprinkle the 14g plain gelatin onto the cool half and let it hydrate. Mix the hot half into the cold and mix thoroughly. Put it in a 1gal ziplock and put in the freezer. Later, line a strainer with cheesecloth and put the strainer in a large bowl. Break up the now frozen stock into pieces and lay it on the cheesecloth. Put the entire thing in the refrigerator. It takes 3-4 days for the extract to come out into the bowl. Pour it off as needed.

    Coconut variation:
    13.5oz coconut milk
    4oz dried flaked coconut
    2c water
    7g gelatin (I used less gelatin since this one is pretty thick between the coconut milk and the flakes)
    Yields clear extract of coconut

    Banana variation:
    5 bananas, sliced with skins on
    2c water
    14g gelatin
    Yields slightly yellow strong extract of banana.

    The banana is still finishing up, I will post pics of that once it is done. Here is the coconut. Pic 1 coconut milk mixed with water. Pic 2 shows the frozen chunks in the cheesecloth. Pic 3 shows the coconut "gelatin" after the extract has me out. Note the volume loss. Pic 4 is the coconut extract (I see now it actually looks a little cloudy but that is condensation on the glass after taking it out of the fridge, you have to trust me on that!)

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  2. Aug 25, 2013 #2

    LoneStarLori

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    That is pretty impressive. I would have never thought to use gelatin. Best thing is you have the true fruit and nothing artificial.
    What a great discovery!
     
  3. Aug 25, 2013 #3

    jamesngalveston

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    very impressive stress baby...very
    i guess we would add a little at a time to get the flavor we want. I am heading to the store to buy some gelatin and strawberrys today.
    Thank you for the post and your effort put forth to find this.
     
  4. Aug 25, 2013 #4

    Stressbaby

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    Here are some pics of the banana. It will go another couple of days. Looks like you get about 50% back on the amount of stock you start with.
    Pic 1 is 2 cups water and 4-5 bananas, skins on.
    Pic 2 is the strained banana water. I think I didn't divide the water on this, I just mixed the gelatin in with the hot banana water
    Pic 3 is the ziplock. I found it is easier to break up if you lay it flat.
    Pic 4 is the banana in the cheesecloth/strainer.
    Pics 5 and 6 show the yield so far and hopefully illustrate the clarity. I estimate it is about 1/2 done after 2 days.

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  5. Aug 25, 2013 #5

    chrisjw

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    As the links point out, the possibilities are endless. Great find, and great post. Seems like a great way to get flavor out of a thick slurry. If the stock is thin then I wonder why the chefs don't just add fining agents to the stock to drop the organic material, and siphon off the clear liquid like we do when clearing wine. It might be quicker for some thin stocks.

    Back to the gelatin extract: I am also wondering what happens if you take the pulp that you collected in the cheesecloth, put it into a pot, with a couple more cups of water, and heat it up. Can you possibly extract more flavor by following the process a second time around. It might not be as strong but ... flavor is a terrible thing to waste.
     
  6. Aug 25, 2013 #6

    seth8530

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    How does this compare to alcohol based extracts? Have you noticed any notable advantages or is similar or perhaps different?
     
  7. Aug 25, 2013 #7

    Stressbaby

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    Chris,
    When the coconut was done, I took a bite from the gelatin that was left...very bland. I estimate 2/3 of the taste went into the extract. I will try with the banana when it is done.

    Seth,
    As an experiment I started a vodka/coconut extract at the same time. At this point the gelatin-filtered extract seems stronger. But I wanted to give it an entire month before making any comparisons. I will filter the vodka/coconut because it is not clear. One thought I had was to mix 1 part alcohol extract to 3 parts gelatin-filtered extract so that the ABV wouldn't move too much. It will depend whether the alcohol extract is clear after filtering.
     
  8. Aug 25, 2013 #8

    jamesngalveston

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    i bought some gelatin today, and will make a strawberry to test.
     
  9. Aug 25, 2013 #9

    Stressbaby

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    James
    Make sure your "stock" is pretty strong.
    I have some leftover strawberries I may do same just for fun.
     
  10. Aug 26, 2013 #10

    Xandra

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    Awesome! Could a person do this process with a fruit, then use the extract as the juice to make a wine with?
     
  11. Aug 26, 2013 #11

    Stressbaby

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    Xandra,
    I doubt it. I think it is unlikely that you would have enough refrigerator or freezer space for that.

    James, how does your strawberry look? My "stock" is pretty darn clear so I'm not sure the gelatin offers that much over an f-pac in this case. But we'll finish the experiment and find out.
     
  12. Aug 26, 2013 #12

    RCGoodin

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    Great thread. Please keep your experiments coming...
     
  13. Aug 26, 2013 #13

    Xandra

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    Thank you so much for this post, this is how I will get the coconut flavoring for my pineapple wine!!! Yay!!!!! Since the gelatin binds with fats and oils, it should be perfect!
     
  14. Sep 1, 2013 #14

    Stressbaby

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    The next step was to see if I could concentrate the flavors at all. I made a concentrate of straight fruit, in this case blackberries. Again, the idea here is to see if we can make a blackberry extract, not only without seeds but without any cloudiness at all which we could add straight to the wine.

    2 cups blackberries. I cooked them down gently and added 7g gelatin. Final volume 1 cup. The last pic shows it as it went from freezer to fridge. This mix sat in the fridge for 4 days and gave up not one drop of extract. Conclusion: straight fruit doesn't work.

    Next up, strawberry...

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  15. Sep 1, 2013 #15

    jamesngalveston

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    my strawberry was a little weak..more pinkish then red..not much flavor.
    i am going to try again somehow....im thinking i may just take 5lbs of strawberrys..add 1 cup water and pectin enzyme , let it sit overnight,to break down the fruit
    then add gelatin, etc.
     
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  16. Sep 1, 2013 #16

    LoneStarLori

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    I'm wondering of the raspberries would have given off some extract if they has been strained first. They are a high pectin fruit on their own and my not have needed much gelatin. Looks like it might be good on toast :D
     
  17. Sep 1, 2013 #17

    Julie

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    I am finding this thread very interesting but I'd you use plenty of fruit in the very beginning is this really necessary?
     
  18. Sep 1, 2013 #18

    seth8530

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  19. Sep 1, 2013 #19

    Julie

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  20. Sep 1, 2013 #20

    seth8530

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    Because when you make an F-pack you are making cooked flavours. The flavours of fruit change when you apply high temperatures to them. The question on mouth feel depends on how much of the extract is needed to give you the desired flavour.
     
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